carlfense Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 As long as we are engaging in a little Founding Fathers worship I should throw in that the 1796 Congress unanimously agreed that the United States was not, in any sense, founded on the religion of Christianity. Then again, the Founders are only relevant when we agree with them, right? Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hmmm . . . I thought you were hanging your hat on that teacher's aid . . . Brenda Nichols. Since that didn't work out well you are now going to sling a few blog posts without acknowledging that you were wrong? Anyways, if you're a true Christian you should embrace persecution (whether real or imagined). Jesus himself said so. Just another way modern Christianity in the U.S. grossly drifts away from the Bible. And this has nothing to do with free speech or freedom of religion, it has to do with what each indiviual Christian will tolerate. it worked out well for me she was dicriminated against by her school district, the point of my argument and where is it was wrong!! The courts had to come in and rectify the situation so my first assertion was true. Jesus also wants us to fight injustice or don't you agree with that? Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Johnny, you are correct that "separation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution. Everyone knows this. I hope that you aren't making a strict textualist argument. If so, the states can ban any and all speech/guns/religion etc. I hope you aren't a strict textualist only when you agree with the outcome. Why not that seems to be your MO. Semantics when you know what someone is trying say. Teacher vs. teacher's aide, instead of looking at the case you were worried if you were right and anxious to prove me worng. You were very worried about the text then weren't you!!! No I am showing how this quote has turned into something written in stone (that shouldn't be) by a person who did not intend this to be so. The left has corrupted the first amendment and turned it against religion rather than the other way around. Each individual has the right to express their religion in the manner they choose and the state should not be allowed to silence them simply because they work for the state. If they are found to be trying to form a national religion in which everyone must join then they are in violation of the first amendment. And again I do not want teachers evangilzing in schools but teachers should have the freedom to speak freely about what they believe in certain context. Can teachers say they don't believe in evolution? Can teachers diagree with the other teacher who had spirit day in a guise to promote Homosexuality? Those are troubling questions!! Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Johnny, you are correct that "separation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution. Everyone knows this. I hope that you aren't making a strict textualist argument. If so, the states can ban any and all speech/guns/religion etc. I hope you aren't a strict textualist only when you agree with the outcome. And no, everyone does not know this. I talk to several people who invoke "the separation of church and state" mantra and they are in disbelief that it does not exist. They have to look it up (some very intelligent people)!! It has been said for so long everyone just accepts it as a fact that it is in the Constitution. Goebbels said this If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Link to comment
carlfense Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 You say that is my MO. Please, show me an example. I'd hate to see you making wild accusations without the facts to back them up. My point with the Nichols case is that you cite it as a powerful and apparently ongoing example of the state suppressing speech. The problem for your argument is that the GOVERNMENT protected her rights and paid her back pay. She was reinstated and resumed wearing her cross. You seem to think that is an example of government suppression. (Edit: I don't know why my phone adds "null.") Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 You say that is my MO. Please, show me an example. I'd hate to see you making wild accusations without the facts to back them up. My point with the Nichols case is that you cite it as a powerful and apparently ongoing example of the state suppressing speech. The problem for your argument is that the GOVERNMENT protected her rights and paid her back pay. She was reinstated and resumed wearing her cross. You seem to think that is an example of government suppression. (null) Public schools are the govt correct? They are still trying to supress free speech. That is still the law in Pa!! She shouldn't have had to fight the school district for that and some may not fight back, that is my problem. You also never talked about the Valedictroian who may not use the word God or Jesus Christ. There are so many examples of school districts all over this country restricting free speech. Link to comment
carlfense Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 And this has nothing to do with free speech or freedom of religion, it has to do with what each indiviual Christian will tolerate. Ah, yes. Jesus' famous teaching that thou shalt constantly whine about your right to impose your religion on others through the government. That . . . or he said . . . Blessed are those who're persecuted for righteousness sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when others revile you, and persecute you, and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets before you. But anyways. A woman being reinstated to her job with back pay and all right restored is terrible, terrible persecution. Worse than crucifixion probably. Perspective is a wonderful thing. I do wonder if the quoted teachings are part of the root of the absolutely pervasive Christian persecution complex. A shocking percentage of Christians seem to think that being a white, religious, male is a disadvantage . . . despite all evidence to the contrary. Link to comment
carlfense Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 You say that is my MO. Please, show me an example. I'd hate to see you making wild accusations without the facts to back them up. My point with the Nichols case is that you cite it as a powerful and apparently ongoing example of the state suppressing speech. The problem for your argument is that the GOVERNMENT protected her rights and paid her back pay. She was reinstated and resumed wearing her cross. You seem to think that is an example of government suppression. (null) Public schools are the govt correct? They are still trying to supress free speech. That is still the law in Pa!! She shouldn't have had to fight the school district for that and some may not fight back, that is my problem. You also never talked about the Valedictroian who may not use the word God or Jesus Christ. There are so many examples of school districts all over this country restricting free speech. Public schools ARE the government. That is why teachers, as representatives of the government, are not allowed to indoctrinate students in religious beliefs. Graduation speeches are a case by case basis. If the speech rises to the level that observers would be lead to believe that the government had endorsed or established the religious message there is an issue. If not, the speaker is free to address his or her religion as he pleases. The valedictorian in my graduating class talked extensively about the role of religion in her life. Somehow, the thousands of speeches that invoke Christian messages without objection never make it onto Fox News. Anyways, a handful of anecdotal cases do not make a convincing argument. I'm not sure how to make that more clear. It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Link to comment
carlfense Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 No I am showing how this quote has turned into something written in stone (that shouldn't be) by a person who did not intend this to be so. It must be wonderful being able to see into the mind of someone who died almost 200 years ago. I wish I could master that trick. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Christians in America? White people in America? Males in the managerial ranks? Clearly, they are all being oppressed. Link to comment
carlfense Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Christians in America? White people in America? Males in the managerial ranks? Clearly, they are all being oppressed. Exactly. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant males just can't get ahead in the United States. Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Christians in America? White people in America? Males in the managerial ranks? Clearly, they are all being oppressed. As usual, nothing worth reading just trolling again huh!??! Link please! Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Christians in America? White people in America? Males in the managerial ranks? Clearly, they are all being oppressed. Exactly. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant males just can't get ahead in the United States. That was witty, all libs think like that so it is not surprising. Sound like you and Sub are overcompensating to me!! Link to comment
VectorVictor Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Christians in America? White people in America? Males in the managerial ranks? Clearly, they are all being oppressed. Exactly. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant males just can't get ahead in the United States. Oppressed, repressed...phbtttttttttttttttttttt It's not like words mean things anymore. Link to comment
carlfense Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 It really is shocking how a massive group of people can convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority. Scary, scary stuff. Almost worthy of the type of Goebbels hyperbole that you posted earlier. Christians in America? White people in America? Males in the managerial ranks? Clearly, they are all being oppressed. Exactly. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant males just can't get ahead in the United States. That was witty, all libs think like that so it is not surprising. Sound like you and Sub are overcompensating to me!! Overcompensating for what, exactly? Coherence would be appreciated. More weapons grade Christian love. http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/01/14/crank-up-the-christian-hatred/ I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Link to comment
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