Why would Israel attack Iran?

[Cactusboy]

If you want to have an honest discussion about this we would look at the times the truces were broken and the times of any invastion/attack. Probably easiest to start at most recent and move back. I'm sure there are some times when it's hard to know "who shot first". Other times it will be rather clear.

 

Good idea. The last, say, 25 times will do. Get the list prepared and we'll go over it.

 

 

see this shows your intent. you know your case is weak so you start getting cute w/ your replies. It's ok to be in over your head in this discussion, but at least man up and admit it. again...this is pretty much exactly like that video above of Scarborough and Brzezinski.

[knapplc]

So.... I say let's go, and you back off, saying I'm in over my head?

 

WTF?

 

Let's do this. Let's look at the times the truce has been broken, and let's see.

 

It looks like you've been called and instead of showing your cards you've folded. Don't fold. Let's play the hand.

[Sub-Husker]

What would it matter if I posted a link to a BBC article about Hamas breaking a truce? Is it not a fact prior to the posting of that link? Insistence on this makes no logical sense.

 

Serious question... do you believe that these search engines censor our certain sources?

 

I have no proof they do or do not. I know it is possible. Do you believe that google is steering us away from information on how bad Israel is?

 

Definitely.

[knapplc]

What would it matter if I posted a link to a BBC article about Hamas breaking a truce? Is it not a fact prior to the posting of that link? Insistence on this makes no logical sense.

 

Serious question... do you believe that these search engines censor our certain sources?

 

I have no proof they do or do not. I know it is possible. Do you believe that google is steering us away from information on how bad Israel is?

 

Definitely.

 

And you base this belief on.....?

[Sub-Husker]

What would it matter if I posted a link to a BBC article about Hamas breaking a truce? Is it not a fact prior to the posting of that link? Insistence on this makes no logical sense.

 

Serious question... do you believe that these search engines censor our certain sources?

 

I have no proof they do or do not. I know it is possible. Do you believe that google is steering us away from information on how bad Israel is?

 

Definitely.

 

And you base this belief on.....?

 

What it is difficult to find on the net, what I can no longer find on the net, and second hand eyewitness accounts from people I trust.

 

That, and the the people I mistrust tell me the opposite thing.

[Cactusboy]

So.... I say let's go, and you back off, saying I'm in over my head?

 

WTF?

 

Let's do this. Let's look at the times the truce has been broken, and let's see.

 

It looks like you've been called and instead of showing your cards you've folded. Don't fold. Let's play the hand.

 

Telling me to go look up and make a list of the last 25 was ridiculous.

 

 

 

June 19, 2008 ceasefire

 

Palestinian Center for Human Rights recorded several IDF violations in the early days of the lull: On 19 June 2008, just a few hours after the beginning of the ceasefire Israeli forces opened fire against fishermen and farmers in Gaza.^[15] Also on 23 June, Israeli forces opened fire against children and farmers in northern Gaza Strip, wounding one of the farmers, Jameel 'Abdul Rahman al-Ghoul, 68, in the neck. And on 25 June, Israeli forces opened fire against farmers in southeastern Gaza Strip, inuring Salem Ahmed Abu Raida, 82, in the hand.^[16]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire

[knapplc]

So.... that's it? One example? And, conveniently, it fits your premise?

 

I'm embarrassed for you, especially since you forgot to put in the paragraph immediately before the one you posted:

According to The New York Times, neither side fully respected the terms of the cease-fire.^[5] Some rockets still continued to fire from Gaza and the Israeli blockade of Gaza was loosened but not completely opened. Hamas hoped that the accord would lead Israel to suspend attacks on the West Bank and Gaza while Israel hoped that the accord would lead to progress on negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit; neither hope was met.^[5] USA Today stated on 1 July that the Israelis had a zero tolerance policy towards the truce in which every rocket and/or mortar attack would be punished in some way.^[14]

 

Well, what do you know? The bold supports what I've been saying all along.

 

 

 

Is this how you want to play the game? You post a source, I post a source, and so on? Each source showing alternately that Hamas and Israel have both broken ceasefires and truces?

 

Are you trying to prove my point now?

[Cactusboy]

So.... that's it? One example? And, conveniently, it fits your premise?

 

I'm embarrassed for you, especially since you forgot to put in the paragraph immediately before the one you posted:

According to The New York Times, neither side fully respected the terms of the cease-fire.^[5] Some rockets still continued to fire from Gaza and the Israeli blockade of Gaza was loosened but not completely opened. Hamas hoped that the accord would lead Israel to suspend attacks on the West Bank and Gaza while Israel hoped that the accord would lead to progress on negotiations for the release of Gilad Shalit; neither hope was met.^[5] USA Today stated on 1 July that the Israelis had a zero tolerance policy towards the truce in which every rocket and/or mortar attack would be punished in some way.^[14]

 

Well, what do you know? The bold supports what I've been saying all along.

 

 

 

Is this how you want to play the game? You post a source, I post a source, and so on? Each source showing alternately that Hamas and Israel have both broken ceasefires and truces?

 

Are you trying to prove my point now?

 

 

Relax....I said I'd START at the most reacent ceasefire.

 

The paragraph you posted is irrelevant. YOu routinely do this I've noticed. Change the argrument, move the goal posts when convenient. We are looking at who BROKE the ceasefire. I showed how it was broken hours after it started.

 

So we have

 

Israel 1

Hamas 0

 

onto the next one.

[knapplc]

On Friday, Hamas officially declared in a statement that the ceasefire had expired, saying the truce would not be renewed because Israel was failing to fulfill its “fundamental conditions and obligations.”The end of the truce was greeted by relative calm, with only a scattering of rocket attacks and no major Israeli military activity.

 

LINK

 

You can't simply declare the sun rises in the west and count that as a point in your favor. Research is your friend.

[Cactusboy]

On Friday, Hamas officially declared in a statement that the ceasefire had expired, saying the truce would not be renewed because Israel was failing to fulfill its “fundamental conditions and obligations.”The end of the truce was greeted by relative calm, with only a scattering of rocket attacks and no major Israeli military activity.

 

LINK

 

You can't simply declare the sun rises in the west and count that as a point in your favor. Research is your friend.

 

 

Yes that was December...6 months after what I posted happened...hours after the ceasefire started in June of the same year.

 

I think your competitive spirit is clouding your thought process. June comes before December. Remember...this isn't a pissing contest we're looking for the truth and then we are both winners.

[walksalone]

Good idea. The last, say, 25 times will do. Get the list prepared and we'll go over it.

 

 

see this shows your intent. you know your case is weak so you start getting cute w/ your replies. It's ok to be in over your head in this discussion, but at least man up and admit it. again...this is pretty much exactly like that video above of Scarborough and Brzezinski.

 

 

[HSKR]

OK Cactus. I really have to ask the million dollar question here. Why do you care so much about this? Is it something personal that you have experienced, someone you know shared experiences or what? I stated before that I think Israel is in the wrong but I don't think the Palestinians are angels either. There is blame to go on both sides. If you want to say Israel is much more to blame, fine. But I really don't get why you and others I have seen when it come to Israel are so passionate with this single issue when the rest of the world is imploding on a daily basis. The reality is this issue is a drop in the bucket, period. Hate me for saying it but it's the truth.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian_conflict#Fatalities_1948-present

 

I'm guessing gang wars in the US rival those numbers. Anyone care? Why hasn't anyone here brought up Syria this week? More Syrians died this week then Palestinians died last year? Anyone care? Go google world atrocities and you will see numbers of dead from conflicts since WWII in the hundreds of thousands. I guess if Israel was smart they should have just went in and killed all the Palestinians at the start and we all would have forgotten by now since that is what seems to happen with every other conflict, including the ones still ongoing. I just find it odd how people like you seem to obsess on this one issue. Is it ignorance with what is going on in the rest of the world or you just hate Israel? Inquiring minds want to know.....

[knapplc]

Anti-Semitism. That's my guess.

[Cactusboy]

OK Cactus. I really have to ask the million dollar question here. Why do you care so much about this? Is it something personal that you have experienced, someone you know shared experiences or what? I stated before that I think Israel is in the wrong but I don't think the Palestinians are angels either. There is blame to go on both sides. If you want to say Israel is much more to blame, fine. But I really don't get why you and others I have seen when it come to Israel are so passionate with this single issue when the rest of the world is imploding on a daily basis. The reality is this issue is a drop in the bucket, period. Hate me for saying it but it's the truth.

 

http://en.wikipedia....es_1948-present

 

I'm guessing gang wars in the US rival those numbers. Anyone care? Why hasn't anyone here brought up Syria this week? More Syrians died this week then Palestinians died last year? Anyone care? Go google world atrocities and you will see numbers of dead from conflicts since WWII in the hundreds of thousands. I guess if Israel was smart they should have just went in and killed all the Palestinians at the start and we all would have forgotten by now since that is what seems to happen with every other conflict, including the ones still ongoing. I just find it odd how people like you seem to obsess on this one issue. Is it ignorance with what is going on in the rest of the world or you just hate Israel? Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

 

Fair question and I'll try to keep the answer short.

 

Grew up in rural Nebraska. Never had a Jewish friend or really any that weren't white. I had met one Jewish person that I knew of before I graduated college. My cousin's friend and I liked him a lot. I have a few Jewish friends now and a couple of arab nationality, but none that are close friends. I'm just stating all this to show I have no reason to be biased one way or the other.

 

I didn't follow politics or world events much at all until after college. At work there was a loud mouth guy that was always so mad and vocal about his political opinions. I could tell a lot of it was BS. For example he was complaining about wasteful spending, so I asked him how much did Reagan's Star Wars program that never materialized cost. He said millions.

 

Anyway he was the type to rant on about how middle easterners/mulsims/etc are scum and we should nuke'm all. Basically I was getting sick of hearing him and it motivated me to become more informed about politics and world events so I could shut him up. I didn't know a thing about the Israel/Palestine subject other than they were in a ongoing conflict. I found out it was a major issue and even more so after I looked into it. It's basically what the whole mideast drama hinges on.

 

All I ever heard anywhere is how Israel was 100% good/right and arabs the opposite. I figured there had to be more to the story. At the time I was on another sports board that had an off topic forum. I posed some basic questions on it and I got some unsatisfying responses. So I went out to find the best/most nonbiased book on the subject I could find. I dind't put a lot of time/effort in the search but I came up w/ "Whose Promised Land?" It turned out to be a great book and a huge eye opener. As I read it I'd talk about it on the forum and kept on getting the "nothing here to see..move along". and a lot of patronizing/condescending stuff. There were a handful of Jews on the forum and some took offense that I was even asking questions or making points. Well this fueled my curiousity more so over the years I'd rent any dvd on the subject I could find..netflix/blockbuster, history channel...I'd read various books...probably 6-8 now on the subject. The more I'd read/watch the more I was amazed at how totally backwards everyone has it. I mean....just watch half of that doc I posted in this thread and you'll get a glimpse of what I'm talking about. Anyway, then I keep learning more and polishing up on my knowledge by being in threads like this. I've been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm also pretty good w/ discussion on Hugo Chavez and Cuba. Those are 2 subjects our media is very biased against and most Americans are relatively clueless about. It's just that they aren't near as likely going to lead to WW3. and people aren't losing their lives over it on a daily basis.

 

So it's just a very important issue to the world and I feel a sense of duty to bring awareness to it.

[Sub-Husker]

Anti-Semitism. That's my guess.

 

That was a disgusting low blow, you OWE him an apology.