The Budget Crisis........in layman's terms.....

[Comish]

Ryans plan changes medicare for people under 55. Things have to change, revenue side and spending side. Its once we get into Welfare/Medicare/Defense everyone gets their panties in a bind.

 

The problem with Ryan's plan, or any other plan that allows current and near future retirees to keep their current / projected benefits, while slashing benefits in the long term is that the later group is paying for the former's benefits. Ryan's plans also front loads a massive tax cut that negates all projected savings from entitle reforms, while using completely unrealistic GDP growth figures to do any deficit reduction.

 

The Bowles-Simpson plan is a much more serious and credible approach as a baseline that embraces conservative ideas. The tax bracket is consolidated into three lower rates, but capital gains will also be taxed as ordinary income. Nearly all tax breaks and deductions are thrown out. The tax on gasoline rises slightly to fund more transportation projects. The age for retirement rises over a very long period of time to reflect that people are living longer, and payroll taxes are increased, but protections are put in place for the poorest retirees. The general outline of the plan is tough medicine all around, but unlike Ryan's plan it doesn't embrace pointless partisan ideas like privatizing Medicare, and also unlike Ryan's plan, it completely flattens the deficit in the long term.

 

I think in general the federal budget needs to be more compartmentalized like payroll taxes and the tax on gasoline, i.e. a specific tax pays for a specific program. Then the debate about lowering or raising taxes for important things like transportation and entitlement benefits becomes more tangible to people rather than looking at the entire budget as a huge slush fund that congress inefficiently expends.

 

Did not Obama completely IGNORE his own Bowles-Simpson plan......? And yet later say that Ryan's plan had some very good elements......?

[carlfense]

Did not Obama Congress completely IGNORE his own the Bowles-Simpson plan......?

FIFY. I'm sure that if Obama had embraced Bowles-Simpson then the GOP would have leapt into action with him.

 

And yet later say that Ryan's plan had some very good elements......?

Source? I'm interested in the actual words said by the president.

[Comish]

.http://www.examiner.com/article/video-obama-praised-ryan-s-medicare-reform-efforts-2010

[Comish]

I especially enjoyed this exact quote "At a GOP retreat in Baltimore on January 29, 2010, Obama spoke highly of Ryan's proposal. "As I said before, this is an entirely legitimate proposal."

[carlfense]

I especially enjoyed this exact quote "At a GOP retreat in Baltimore on January 29, 2010, Obama spoke highly of Ryan's proposal. "As I said before, this is an entirely legitimate proposal."

Saying something is legitimate is speaking "highly?"

 

What passes for praise these days, eh?

[krill]

I especially enjoyed this exact quote "At a GOP retreat in Baltimore on January 29, 2010, Obama spoke highly of Ryan's proposal. "As I said before, this is an entirely legitimate proposal."

 

The measures proposed in the Bowles-Simpson plan failed a senate vote after 6 Republican co-sponsors backed out, and it's not really the President's prerogative to go all in politically on legislation that is universally unpopular and not moving in congress. You may also recall that during the pointless plank walk over $100 billion in cuts Republican's promised with their house majority victory in the 2010 elections, Obama wanted a much larger deficit reduction deal that was based on the Bowles-Simpson plan, but house Republican's refused any deal that raised a single tax. So I think it's more than disingenuous to simply say Obama ignored the commission because it was politically expedient. Every (I mean that as an absolute) single time the President has come closer to Republican ideas, the goal post have been packed up and moved while he's simultaneously attacked for doing nothing and trying to do something.

[Comish]

I especially enjoyed this exact quote "At a GOP retreat in Baltimore on January 29, 2010, Obama spoke highly of Ryan's proposal. "As I said before, this is an entirely legitimate proposal."

Saying something is legitimate is speaking "highly?"

 

What passes for praise these days, eh?

Did you miss the LEGITIMATE PROPOSAL quote?

 

And as to your deflection of Bowles-Simpson as being on congress..........the point wasn't what others did, but that HE ignored his OWN team's recommendations..........try and keep up.....

[carlfense]

Did you miss the LEGITIMATE PROPOSAL quote?

Saying something is legitimate is speaking "highly?"

 

And as to your deflection of Bowles-Simpson as being on congress..........the point wasn't what others did, but that HE ignored his OWN team's recommendations..........

What should Obama have done Comish? And what would have happened? Specifics please.

[Comish]

Did you miss the LEGITIMATE PROPOSAL quote?

Saying something is legitimate is speaking "highly?"

 

And as to your deflection of Bowles-Simpson as being on congress..........the point wasn't what others did, but that HE ignored his OWN team's recommendations..........

What should Obama have done Comish? And what would have happened? Specifics please.

How about saying something along the lines of..............I asked for this report and here it is. Everyone is going to sacrifice, but to make it work, that is what is required. I know it's not going to be popular but you elected me to make some tough decisions and that's what were going to do.

 

If he'd had the cojones to even go that far, his respect quotient would have jumped off the charts. But he didn't . He ignored it. (so that apologists like yourself could immediately shift to congress)

[carlfense]

How about saying something along the lines of..............I asked for this report and here it is. Everyone is going to sacrifice, but to make it work, that is what is required. I know it's not going to be popular but you elected me to make some tough decisions and that's what were going to do.

 

If he'd had the cojones to even go that far, his respect quotient would have jumped off the charts. But he didn't . He ignored it. (so that apologists like yourself could immediately shift to congress)

And what would have happened at that point? Come on. You know the answer to that question. Anything that Obama embraces will be immediately rejected by the GOP.

 

 

 

 

I can just imagine the howls of outrage if Obama had tried to circumvent Congress and enact any part of Bowles-Simpson unilaterally.

[Comish]

How about saying something along the lines of..............I asked for this report and here it is. Everyone is going to sacrifice, but to make it work, that is what is required. I know it's not going to be popular but you elected me to make some tough decisions and that's what were going to do.

 

If he'd had the cojones to even go that far, his respect quotient would have jumped off the charts. But he didn't . He ignored it. (so that apologists like yourself could immediately shift to congress)

And what would have happened at that point? Come on. You know the answer to that question. Anything that Obama embraces will be immediately rejected by the GOP.

 

 

 

 

I can just imagine the howls of outrage if Obama had tried to circumvent Congress and enact any part of Bowles-Simpson unilaterally.

Your missing the point. He's done PLENTY unilaterally............stretching executive priviledge waaay.......opps don't want to derail the thread)

I suggesting he could have actually LEAD on this (I know I would have amped my respect for him). Sure it would be difficult (howls from both sides), but the American people would have noticed genuine leadership and I'll bet he would have been rewarded for boldness. I'm sick of congress myself but it's harder to hold one of 535 people accountable when they can easily hide in the numbers. Anyone with enough ego to want to be the most important person in the world has the obligation to lead, and that includes making some tough calls.

[carlfense]

Your missing the point. He's done PLENTY unilaterally............stretching executive priviledge waaay.......opps don't want to derail the thread)

I suggesting he could have actually LEAD on this (I know I would have amped my respect for him). Sure it would be difficult (howls from both sides), but the American people would have noticed genuine leadership and I'll bet he would have been rewarded for boldness. I'm sick of congress myself but it's harder to hold one of 535 people accountable when they can easily hide in the numbers. Anyone with enough ego to want to be the most important person in the world has the obligation to lead, and that includes making some tough calls.

And what would have happened after Obama embraced it?

 

(Is this the closest that you've come to praising Obama? If he had done something different you would respect him more? )

[Comish]

Your missing the point. He's done PLENTY unilaterally............stretching executive priviledge waaay.......opps don't want to derail the thread)

I suggesting he could have actually LEAD on this (I know I would have amped my respect for him). Sure it would be difficult (howls from both sides), but the American people would have noticed genuine leadership and I'll bet he would have been rewarded for boldness. I'm sick of congress myself but it's harder to hold one of 535 people accountable when they can easily hide in the numbers. Anyone with enough ego to want to be the most important person in the world has the obligation to lead, and that includes making some tough calls.

And what would have happened after Obama embraced it?

 

(Is this the closest that you've come to praising Obama? If he had done something different you would respect him more? )

 

IF he embraced it.............who knows? Maybe, just maybe, with some leadership ,enough in congress could be prodded into some serious action. But he whiffed again so it's a moot point.

[ZRod]

I especially enjoyed this exact quote "At a GOP retreat in Baltimore on January 29, 2010, Obama spoke highly of Ryan's proposal. "As I said before, this is an entirely legitimate proposal."

 

The measures proposed in the Bowles-Simpson plan failed a senate vote after 6 Republican co-sponsors backed out, and it's not really the President's prerogative to go all in politically on legislation that is universally unpopular and not moving in congress. You may also recall that during the pointless plank walk over $100 billion in cuts Republican's promised with their house majority victory in the 2010 elections, Obama wanted a much larger deficit reduction deal that was based on the Bowles-Simpson plan, but house Republican's refused any deal that raised a single tax. So I think it's more than disingenuous to simply say Obama ignored the commission because it was politically expedient. Every (I mean that as an absolute) single time the President has come closer to Republican ideas, the goal post have been packed up and moved while he's simultaneously attacked for doing nothing and trying to do something.

I knew this was somehow all Grover Norquist's fault!

[carlfense]

IF he embraced it.............who knows? Maybe, just maybe, with some leadership ,enough in congress could be prodded into some serious action. But he whiffed again so it's a moot point.

The congressional GOP would just love to follow Obama's leadership.