Packers-Seahawks

[tschu]

 

Yeah, this is pretty awesome.

Hahaha incredible

[Foppa]

Take away the crappy refs, and in reality the Packers have no one to really blame but themselves. You scored all of 12 points on the road. Really? When does scoring 12 points on the road win anything? You scored zero points in the first half, and got owned by the Seattle defense. And it wasn't like the refs were doing Seattle any favors either. Maybe if Aaron Rodgers spent less time blowing the smoke away from his finger gun and more time completing passes and not getting sacked, they'd be the same team from last year.

This is a dumb viewpoint. The point is that the Packers won this game fair and square, but the refs blew it. There are ifs ands and buts in every football game.

 

Not really. I don't even get how this call is debateable. If you are a Packers fan (and you are) you'd already stop whining about what 99.9% of what the NFL and their fan base already knows was BS and start looking at how a year ago GB would've been up by 4 TD's at the end of the game and this wouldn't have been an issue. But keep crying and blaming the same pathetic refs that shaft every team in the league equally to cover up the fact that Green Bay is hardly the great team that couldn't even make the Super Bowl last year with legitimate refs. Just be fortunate that Green Bay plays in a weak division. Detroit is overhyped, Chicago has Cutler, and Minnesota just used its only miracle of the season. Green Bay will make the playoffs. Just not sure if fans will even care about the NFL by that point.

That's not the issue.

 

You could make that point about almost any game. The officiating has to be competent. I'm not worried about the rest of the season, but the notion that this was somehow Green Bay's fault for not being up by more points is laughable. Forget the fact that close games happen in football and need to be fairly officiated. Forget how Seattle's drive was over until a BS roughing penalty, then was over AGAIN until a DPI call that was actually OPI. Then the blown call at the end. Whether or not Green Bay played to their potential is the last thing that matters when talking about the integrity of the game. Clearly I'm biased here, but I was equally outraged over the ending of the Pats-Ravens game...and I hate the Pats. Was that somehow the Patriots fault for not being up by 4 touchdowns too? No, you can't just say that about every bad call at the end of games.

 

I understand that, and it is the pertinent part of the argument. I get that. I just think that 1) The Packers should have won that game without controversy (a la Nebraska vs TAMU) and 2) This is the reality of NFL 2012. It is going to SUCK ASS. FOR EVERYONE. I think at one point there was a flag on 5 consecutive plays?! Who the hell wants to sit through 35 flags a game? I'm really surprised I woke up today and didn't see the headline, "Roger Goodell Fired, Regular Refs Back To Work." Hell...I'm surprised I didn't wake up and see the headline, "Roger Goodell Shot And Killed, 32 NFL Owners Taken In For Questioning." I'm surprised the NFL has let things get to this point...but as it has been pointed out, they're in it for the bottom line, not the fans or the product on the field. NHL fans are used to this and going through it again. Nature of the beast.

[The Dude]

At least the game is much more violent with the replacement refs.

 

Silver lining, my friends.

[The Dude]

[The Dude]

[Enhance]

Take away the crappy refs, and in reality the Packers have no one to really blame but themselves. You scored all of 12 points on the road. Really? When does scoring 12 points on the road win anything? You scored zero points in the first half, and got owned by the Seattle defense. And it wasn't like the refs were doing Seattle any favors either. Maybe if Aaron Rodgers spent less time blowing the smoke away from his finger gun and more time completing passes and not getting sacked, they'd be the same team from last year.

This is a dumb viewpoint. The point is that the Packers won this game fair and square, but the refs blew it. There are ifs ands and buts in every football game.

I actually agree with Foppa. One play does not make a football game, anymore than one pitch does not make a baseball game. One play can decide a victor, but it does not tell the whole story. Green Bay had atrocious offensive line play and did not look good on offense. Their poor play put them in a position to possibly lose on a Hail Mary play, and although I still disagree with how that play turned out, Green Bay could have done more to prevent it.

 

It's just silly to suggest that this Hail Mary cost Green Bay the game. It didn't - their offense did.

[dutch91701]

It's just silly to suggest that this Hail Mary cost Green Bay the game.

 

Except that it did.....

[zoogs]

I agree with you in general, Enhance, and I'd agree with you especially if I were a Packers player.

 

As a neutral observer though, I can tell you that Green Bay literally won that game. It was tighter than it could have been, but they won. With however many seconds left in the fourth quarter, the Redskins(oops, Seahawks) got a flagrant, uncalled offensive pass interference. 15 yards, 4th & 25. I suppose, there's the question of could they have scored on the ensuing Hail Mary. That's an infinitesimal probability so, for all useful intents and purposes, in my eyes, GB won this game.

[tschu]

This isn't the case of one penalty call affecting the outcome of the game or something like that. This was the case of one touchdown/interception call LITERALLY deciding the outcome of the game, wrongly. Normally I'd agree with you Enhance, but taking the coachspeak road on this one is a rather silly thing to do. Did you watch the entire final two minutes? You can't look me in the eye and tell me that Seattle won the game, and you sure can't look me in the eye and tell me that they deserved to win the game. You can't look me in the eye anyway because this is an internet forum.

[Enhance]

This isn't the case of one penalty call affecting the outcome of the game or something like that. This was the case of one touchdown/interception call LITERALLY deciding the outcome of the game, wrongly. Normally I'd agree with you Enhance, but taking the coachspeak road on this one is a rather silly thing to do. Did you watch the entire final two minutes? You can't look me in the eye and tell me that Seattle won the game, and you sure can't look me in the eye and tell me that they deserved to win the game. You can't look me in the eye anyway because this is an internet forum.

I can look you in the eye (figuratively) and tell you Green Bay should have won the game, but I'm not arguing that point. I'm arguing that Green Bay did not, by any definition of the word, look good on Monday night. Neither team did. It was a terrible game to watch. The issue I'm trying to substantiate is that Green Bay and Seattle played poorly enough to let one play decide the outcome of the game. But in the grand scheme of things, the hail mary play is no more important than one of the 10,000 sacks Rodger took. Every play is as important as the last and as the next.

 

If Green Bay had been up 30-6 and this happened, would you have cared? Maybe a little, but not as much as you and many other obviously do now.

 

It's the exact same reason that I don't take huge issue with how Nebraska lost the '09 Championship game. Our offense played like cow manure, and we LET Texas be in a position to win at the end of the game, just like Green Bay let Seattle be in a position to win. So what if our defense played pretty lights out that game, you know? I don't see how we deserved to win that game anymore than they.

 

In summation, the game's end was atrocious and not right, but if I'm a Packer's fan today, I'm far more concerned about how poorly our team played more than I am about one bad call.

[Enhance]

It's just silly to suggest that this Hail Mary cost Green Bay the game.

 

Except that it did.....

From your point of view it does, from mine, it doesn't. I don't fully understand the train of thought that one play decides a game, no matter how big it is or when it happened.

[tschu]

You're right. They didn't play well. And yet still won the game outright. Whether or not they played up to their ability is inconsequential when looking at an officiating mistake of that magnitude. Green Bay being on the wrong end of that call being somehow okay because they played like crap doesn't make sense.

[tschu]

One play did not decide the game either. How about the roughing the passer that was called which was clearly not a penalty? How about the OPI which was instead called DPI on Sam Shields? Seattle should not have even been in position to throw the Hail Mary, but the refs gave them that chance as well. And in addition to missing the INT/TD call in the end zone, they missed the push-off pass interference on that play. So they missed TWO WAYS in which Seattle did not score and the game should have been over.

 

Look I'm with you 100% that you shouldn't ever blame the refs for a game, but this clearly is an exception.

[Enhance]

Yeah, I can see we're in agreement. It's probably just more difficult for you as a Packers fan. I follow the Vikings, but more-over I'm just a fan of the NFL, and that's what upsets me most, that the NFL would let something like that happen all because of a little money. It was money that led to bad refs making bad decisions for a sixty minute game, in conjunction with both teams just not playing well.

[zoogs]

1) I don't think games have to be decently lopsided in order for these calls to matter. Sometimes games are just close. When one team wins outright, they deserve it. In no cases does a team that won off an uncalled OPI deserve it. When a game comes down to the last play, then yes, that last play literally decides the outcome of the game.

 

2) I don't think it's fair to blame only one side for a financial dispute that does, after all, involve two parties; in this case a party of part-time employees asking for better retirement benefits than regular NFL employees get under the new CBA.