Remember NASA? Well, say goodbye.

[TGHusker]

 

Didn't read through all of TG's stuff just because of the volume, but in my understanding the Christian church (read: individual people over an institution), up until the last ~500-600 years, was really at the forefront of a lot of scientific and cultural advancement.

 

Not that I am tremendously well-versed in history, but Galileo is a bit of a red herring for the anti-science religion argument which is funny because there are enough far right conservative wacko's currently alive that are far better ammunition.

The Christian Church was at the forefront of EUROPEAN science for a couple of reasons, the very basics of which are: They were the greatest political entity in Europe for around 1,000 years, and if you weren't part of the church you were not going to have the clout, the money or the resources to perform front-line research. Local kings & lords operated under the auspices of the Church, again out of necessity, meaning they were a secondary source of resources and funds, whereas the Church had made themselves utterly necessary in the pursuit of any scientific research by monopolization of resources. Second, the Church for the bulk of that time believed that the pursuit of science would validate Biblical teachings. When they didn't (as in Galileo's case, and others) those scientists met resistance from the Church. Cecco d'Ascoli, Marco Antonio de Dominis, and Giordano Bruno, to name a few.

 

The Church was supportive of ideas that supported the Church. They were not supportive of the scientific method. In fact, they accused those who used such methods of heresy.

 

 

 

This belief that the Church was somehow at the forefront of all science is a Euro-centric view. Non-Christians throughout the world made huge strides in scientific understanding without any input from the Christian Church, many without input from any church at all. In fact, much of the foundation of the European Renaissance was laid by Spanish Moors, Muslims who certainly had no interest in the dogmatic Church system of Europe. European Christians were largely illiterate, Christian scholars had poor understandings of mathematics and engineering, and there was no impetus from the Church to correct this - it came from the Moors' influence.

 

Good post. I agree 100% that the Church during that era and the 'govt' were inseparable. Since the church also established most of the universities in Europe, they also retained control of the research institutions at the time. With this said, the scientists I noted previously not only were great scientists put were sincere in their faith as well - not a forced faith in order to be a scientist. Many would proclaim it as a calling - like a minister would.

2 big issues in the Galileo episode 1 Scientists were given the 'charter' to dive into science but not into theology. Galileo erred when he took his scientific work and began to form theology around it - which was still reserved for the church itself. 2. Galileo in writing his Dialogue on the Two World Systems mocked the pope in the way he wrote the story. We are able to mock our president in today's world, but that was a different world. Regardless, the church should have had 'thicker skin' and not tried him. This is why our founders were wise to make sure there was not a state church as in England. Under God's economy, each has a role but a separate role. Jesus even noted this with his statement "Render to Cesar that which is Cesar's but render to God, that which is God's (our devotion). "

Knapp, I also agree that Christian Europe did not have the corner on learning. So no argument there.