StPaulHusker Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. I thought we were having a civilized discussion. But if you want to include all options for gun control, you need to first repeal the 2nd amendment. Then you can pass whatever kind of law you want without worrying about strict scrutiny and constitutional muster. The 2nd Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms. It says nothing about how a person has to go about obtaining them. "Keep" means buy or acquire, and own. So obtaining them is part of the protected right. By definition, if you put limits on how they may obtain them, you are infringing on the right. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/02/10/supreme-court-asked-to-clarify-what-it-means-to-bear-arms/ The Supreme Court in 2008 made it clear that the right to “keep” a gun is a personal right, and that it means one has a right to keep a functioning firearm for self-defense within the home. And? And people have differing opinions of what "keep" means. Luckily, the courts are pretty clear on it. http://harvardlawreview.org/2014/04/does-the-second-amendment-protect-firearms-commerce/ How can you have an uninfringeable right to own a gun if you don't have the same right to acquire one? The 2nd Amendment defines the right to have and carry a firearm. It doesn't define what you have to do in order to exercise that right. Link to comment
GBRedneck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. I thought we were having a civilized discussion. But if you want to include all options for gun control, you need to first repeal the 2nd amendment. Then you can pass whatever kind of law you want without worrying about strict scrutiny and constitutional muster. The 2nd Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms. It says nothing about how a person has to go about obtaining them. "Keep" means buy or acquire, and own. So obtaining them is part of the protected right. By definition, if you put limits on how they may obtain them, you are infringing on the right. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/02/10/supreme-court-asked-to-clarify-what-it-means-to-bear-arms/ The Supreme Court in 2008 made it clear that the right to “keep” a gun is a personal right, and that it means one has a right to keep a functioning firearm for self-defense within the home. And? And people have differing opinions of what "keep" means. Luckily, the courts are pretty clear on it. http://harvardlawreview.org/2014/04/does-the-second-amendment-protect-firearms-commerce/ How can you have an uninfringeable right to own a gun if you don't have the same right to acquire one? The 2nd Amendment defines the right to have and carry a firearm. It doesn't define what you have to do in order to exercise that right. Correct. It doesn't say how you should do it, but it clearly says your right to do it shall not be infringed. So if they ban the sale of firearms, you think that would be constitutional? I'm guessing you didn't read the link I provided. Link to comment
StPaulHusker Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. I thought we were having a civilized discussion. But if you want to include all options for gun control, you need to first repeal the 2nd amendment. Then you can pass whatever kind of law you want without worrying about strict scrutiny and constitutional muster. The 2nd Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms. It says nothing about how a person has to go about obtaining them. "Keep" means buy or acquire, and own. So obtaining them is part of the protected right. By definition, if you put limits on how they may obtain them, you are infringing on the right. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/02/10/supreme-court-asked-to-clarify-what-it-means-to-bear-arms/ The Supreme Court in 2008 made it clear that the right to “keep” a gun is a personal right, and that it means one has a right to keep a functioning firearm for self-defense within the home. And? And people have differing opinions of what "keep" means. Luckily, the courts are pretty clear on it. http://harvardlawreview.org/2014/04/does-the-second-amendment-protect-firearms-commerce/ How can you have an uninfringeable right to own a gun if you don't have the same right to acquire one? The 2nd Amendment defines the right to have and carry a firearm. It doesn't define what you have to do in order to exercise that right. Correct. It doesn't say how you should do it, but it clearly says your right to do it shall not be infringed. So if they ban the sale of firearms, you think that would be constitutional? I'm guessing you didn't read the link I provided. We are going to agree to disagree on the definitions of words regarding this topic. So again, I will end it. Link to comment
GBRedneck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. I thought we were having a civilized discussion. But if you want to include all options for gun control, you need to first repeal the 2nd amendment. Then you can pass whatever kind of law you want without worrying about strict scrutiny and constitutional muster. The 2nd Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms. It says nothing about how a person has to go about obtaining them. "Keep" means buy or acquire, and own. So obtaining them is part of the protected right. By definition, if you put limits on how they may obtain them, you are infringing on the right. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/02/10/supreme-court-asked-to-clarify-what-it-means-to-bear-arms/ The Supreme Court in 2008 made it clear that the right to “keep” a gun is a personal right, and that it means one has a right to keep a functioning firearm for self-defense within the home. And? And people have differing opinions of what "keep" means. Luckily, the courts are pretty clear on it. http://harvardlawreview.org/2014/04/does-the-second-amendment-protect-firearms-commerce/ How can you have an uninfringeable right to own a gun if you don't have the same right to acquire one? The 2nd Amendment defines the right to have and carry a firearm. It doesn't define what you have to do in order to exercise that right. Correct. It doesn't say how you should do it, but it clearly says your right to do it shall not be infringed. So if they ban the sale of firearms, you think that would be constitutional? I'm guessing you didn't read the link I provided. We are going to agree to disagree on the definitions of words regarding this topic. So again, I will end it. No problem. I've been in similar arguments with people that thought banning ammo was the solution, without realizing that "ammo" is a subset of "arms". Link to comment
huskerfan2000 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 People get all worked up about gun violence when these horrible mass shootings happen and it's all over the news. Fact is, there are way more people killed by gun violence that isn't involved with a mass shooting than the ones that are. But, those aren't plastered all over CNN. This article talks about who owns guns in America. LINK As it says, the vast majority of guns are owned by white men in rural America. Hmmmm.....Now, where is the vast majority of gun violence? It sure as heck isn't by white men in rural America. So, if guns are the problem, why wouldn't white men in rural America be where the most gun violence is happening? This is a social issue....NOT a gun issue. So, let's go back to the mass shootings that get plastered all over CNN. What else did they find in these pathetic people's apartment? Pipe bombs. Hmmmm.....what is the favorite form of mass killings in other countries? Bombs. Bombs are EASY to make from every day stuff if someone i so inclined. I get so sick of reading articles that show how much more gun violence we have than other countries. OK....that may be true. Now, what a more meaningful statistic would be is how many people in various countries die from violence in general no matter if it's from a gun, bomb...etc. My point is, if these scum bags didn't have guns, they would have simply used the very simple pipe bombs they already had made. The Boston Marathon killings weren't from guns, they were from a very simple bomb. Keying on the guns blinds us to the real issues in our society. Until we are willing to talk about those, killings will continue no matter what the weapon. But......much of that conversation is going to be very politically incorrect so nobody in the public life is going to be willing to discuss it openly. It is much easier to talk about guns. Good post. Gun control is nothing but a scam to take guns away. Has ANY law ever stopped a criminal? How about the war on drugs, how has that gone? How about drunk driving laws? Like you said, this isn't a gun issue, this is a human issue. You can't legislate people to do good. We have violence in every facet of our lives, is it no wonder people have no value for human life anymore? Hell, we kill our offspring like it is an inconvience. 1 Link to comment
Saunders Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. Like what? Taking away rights without due process? That's a terrible precedent. Do you support racial profiling too? What I mean is that there should be room for negotiation. People like you take the words of a politician you don't like and instantly spout out how awful they are and the country will be without ever considering that there are workable solutions from even the far left or far right of ideas. There must be a balance between acceptable risk, personal freedom, and public safety. And based off the statements above, there are people that want to deny that there is any connection between those things. "People like me" Oh... ok. I already said I'm not opposed to making changes. That doesn't mean I can't say that using the "no fly list" is asinine. 1 Link to comment
huskerfan2000 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I can say it.. using the "no fly list" is asinnine. Flying is not a constitutional right, owning guns are! Link to comment
GBRedneck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I can say it.. using the "no fly list" is asinnine. Flying is not a constitutional right, owning guns are! And there is no doubt whatsoever that using the existing no-fly list system to stop people from buying guns is unconstitutional. In fact, it's unconstitutional to use the existing no-fly list to stop people from flying. Flying actually is a consitutional right, although not enumerated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law The no-fly list ignores due process. Link to comment
zoogs Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Nov 23 (MN) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/us/four-charged-in-shooting-of-protesters-in-minneapolis.html straw purchase? Nov 29 (GA) http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/cops-6-year-old-atlanta-girl-shot-herself-dad-char/npYJf/ straw purchase? Nov 29 (IA) http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2015/12/10/accused-court-avenue-shooter-hopes-leave-jail/77085824/ straw purchase? Dec 2 (CO) http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29194151/denver-police-officer-involved-shooting-near-sloans-lake?source=pkg straw purchase? Dec 3 (IL) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-darien-walmart-arrest-met-20151206-story.html straw purchase? Dec 5 (WI) http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/crime/2015/12/11/timeline-tragedy-unfolds-neenah-cycle-shop/77088502/ straw purchase? Dec 5 (MA) http://www.wcvb.com/news/boston-shooting-victim-idd-suspects-arrested/36860834 straw purchase? Dec 7 (CT) http://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-hartford-shooting-1208-20151207-story.html straw purchase? Dec 7 (OH) http://www.cleveland.com/hillcrest/index.ssf/2015/12/man_killed_by_richmond_heights_1.html straw purchase? Dec 7 (NE) http://www.kcci.com/news/omaha-police-2yearold-girl-woman-killed-in-shooting/36836884 straw purchase? Dec 7 (LV) http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-dead-las-vegas-shooting-35638310 straw purchase? Dec 8 (MI) http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/12/08/parking-lot-shooting-toy-store-flint/76969882/ straw purchase? Dec 9 (TN) http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2015/12/09/two-killed-two-injured-shooting-tallahassee-restaurant/77027102/ straw purchase? Dec 10 (CO) http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29217944/denver-police-responding-officer-involved-shooting straw purchase? Dec 10 (SD) http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/sioux-falls-shooting-suspect-still-at-large/?id=188477 straw purchase? Dec 10 (MA) http://www.wcvb.com/news/2-dead-in-revere-triple-shooting/36910380 straw purchase? Dec 11 (NY) http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/coney-island-shooting-leaves-dead-article-1.2463564 straw purchase? Dec 11 (KS) http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/kansas-cops-3-year-old-son-shoots-and-kills-himself-with-gun-found-inside-apartment/ straw purchase? Dec 11 (WI) http://www.channel3000.com/news/police-look-for-suspects-involved-in-fatal-east-side-shooting/36931284 straw purchase? Dec 12 (TX) http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/12/4-bikers-shot-and-killed-in-waco-with-gun-type-police-use/ straw purchase? Dec 12 (LA) http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/12/victim_of_reserve_double_shoot.html straw purchase? Dec 12 (MS) http://www.wapt.com/news/jackson-police-investigate-fatal-shooting/36939528 straw purchase? Dec 12 (MI) http://fox17online.com/2015/12/13/armed-robbery-turns-into-a-shooting-at-bottlenecks-in-gr/ straw purchase? Dec 12 (NC) http://www.wral.com/two-arrested-one-sought-in-shooting-at-fayetteville-apartment-complex/15172916/ straw purchase? Dec 12 (WA) http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-hospitalized-after-shooting-at-everett-house-party/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (PA) http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20151213_ap_bb3d26a65a594a62b6c9c3f335756085.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (TX) http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/12/13/reportedly-suicidal-woman-shot-killed-after-pointing-gun-at-police/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (OH) http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/12/13/columbus-boomerang-karl-rd-critical-bar-shooting.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (IN) http://fox59.com/2015/12/13/deadly-shooting-on-the-citys-northwest-side/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (IN) http://fox59.com/2015/12/13/police-investigate-northeast-side-shooting-late-sunday/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (FL) http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2015/12/14/teen_facing_manslaug.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (WA) http://q13fox.com/2015/12/13/tacoma-police-investigating-fatal-shooting/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (WA) http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/police-investigating-fatal-shooting-in-belltown/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (PA) http://6abc.com/news/1-teen-dead-another-critically-injured-in-west-philadelphia-shooting/1121465/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (CA) http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-one-killed-three-others-injured-at-shooting-in-downtown-los-angeles-20151213-story.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (TN) http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/12/13/police-scene-east-knoxville-shooting/77243638/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (GA) http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/fatal-shooting-reported-at-cobb-county-apartment-c/nph92/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (CA) http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huntington-beach-shooting-4-wounded-20151213-story.html straw purchase? Dec 14 (PA) http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/12/14/two-young-men-killed-in-shooting-in-homewood/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (GA) http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2015/12/14/gbi-investigating-after-north-ga-mayor-shot-head/77270616/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (GA) http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/crime/article49665950.html straw purchase? Dec 14 (IL) http://abc7chicago.com/news/man-charged-in-wrigleyville-shooting/1121875/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (NY) http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/12/two_men_shot_in_clifton_monday.html straw purchase? Dec 14 (MO) http://www.kmov.com/story/30739545/fenton-woman-22-accused-of-fatally-shooting-fianc-following-altercation-in-rolla straw purchase? Dec 14 (OR) http://www.kezi.com/news/Deputies_Investigating_Marcola_Shooting.html straw purchase? Many of these may well be from straw purchases. This also isn't a comprehensive list. C'est la vie? Link to comment
GBRedneck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Nov 23 (MN) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/us/four-charged-in-shooting-of-protesters-in-minneapolis.html straw purchase? Nov 29 (GA) http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/cops-6-year-old-atlanta-girl-shot-herself-dad-char/npYJf/ straw purchase? Nov 29 (IA) http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2015/12/10/accused-court-avenue-shooter-hopes-leave-jail/77085824/ straw purchase? Dec 2 (CO) http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29194151/denver-police-officer-involved-shooting-near-sloans-lake?source=pkg straw purchase? Dec 3 (IL) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-darien-walmart-arrest-met-20151206-story.html straw purchase? Dec 5 (WI) http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/crime/2015/12/11/timeline-tragedy-unfolds-neenah-cycle-shop/77088502/ straw purchase? Dec 5 (MA) http://www.wcvb.com/news/boston-shooting-victim-idd-suspects-arrested/36860834 straw purchase? Dec 7 (CT) http://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-hartford-shooting-1208-20151207-story.html straw purchase? Dec 7 (OH) http://www.cleveland.com/hillcrest/index.ssf/2015/12/man_killed_by_richmond_heights_1.html straw purchase? Dec 7 (NE) http://www.kcci.com/news/omaha-police-2yearold-girl-woman-killed-in-shooting/36836884 straw purchase? Dec 7 (LV) http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-dead-las-vegas-shooting-35638310 straw purchase? Dec 8 (MI) http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/12/08/parking-lot-shooting-toy-store-flint/76969882/ straw purchase? Dec 9 (TN) http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2015/12/09/two-killed-two-injured-shooting-tallahassee-restaurant/77027102/ straw purchase? Dec 10 (CO) http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29217944/denver-police-responding-officer-involved-shooting straw purchase? Dec 10 (SD) http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/sioux-falls-shooting-suspect-still-at-large/?id=188477 straw purchase? Dec 10 (MA) http://www.wcvb.com/news/2-dead-in-revere-triple-shooting/36910380 straw purchase? Dec 11 (NY) http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/coney-island-shooting-leaves-dead-article-1.2463564 straw purchase? Dec 11 (KS) http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/kansas-cops-3-year-old-son-shoots-and-kills-himself-with-gun-found-inside-apartment/ straw purchase? Dec 11 (WI) http://www.channel3000.com/news/police-look-for-suspects-involved-in-fatal-east-side-shooting/36931284 straw purchase? Dec 12 (TX) http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/12/4-bikers-shot-and-killed-in-waco-with-gun-type-police-use/ straw purchase? Dec 12 (LA) http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/12/victim_of_reserve_double_shoot.html straw purchase? Dec 12 (MS) http://www.wapt.com/news/jackson-police-investigate-fatal-shooting/36939528 straw purchase? Dec 12 (MI) http://fox17online.com/2015/12/13/armed-robbery-turns-into-a-shooting-at-bottlenecks-in-gr/ straw purchase? Dec 12 (NC) http://www.wral.com/two-arrested-one-sought-in-shooting-at-fayetteville-apartment-complex/15172916/ straw purchase? Dec 12 (WA) http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-hospitalized-after-shooting-at-everett-house-party/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (PA) http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20151213_ap_bb3d26a65a594a62b6c9c3f335756085.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (TX) http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/12/13/reportedly-suicidal-woman-shot-killed-after-pointing-gun-at-police/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (OH) http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/12/13/columbus-boomerang-karl-rd-critical-bar-shooting.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (IN) http://fox59.com/2015/12/13/deadly-shooting-on-the-citys-northwest-side/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (IN) http://fox59.com/2015/12/13/police-investigate-northeast-side-shooting-late-sunday/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (FL) http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2015/12/14/teen_facing_manslaug.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (WA) http://q13fox.com/2015/12/13/tacoma-police-investigating-fatal-shooting/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (WA) http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/police-investigating-fatal-shooting-in-belltown/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (PA) http://6abc.com/news/1-teen-dead-another-critically-injured-in-west-philadelphia-shooting/1121465/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (CA) http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-one-killed-three-others-injured-at-shooting-in-downtown-los-angeles-20151213-story.html straw purchase? Dec 13 (TN) http://www.wbir.com/story/news/2015/12/13/police-scene-east-knoxville-shooting/77243638/ straw purchase? Dec 13 (GA) http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-law/fatal-shooting-reported-at-cobb-county-apartment-c/nph92/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (CA) http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-huntington-beach-shooting-4-wounded-20151213-story.html straw purchase? Dec 14 (PA) http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/12/14/two-young-men-killed-in-shooting-in-homewood/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (GA) http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2015/12/14/gbi-investigating-after-north-ga-mayor-shot-head/77270616/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (GA) http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/crime/article49665950.html straw purchase? Dec 14 (IL) http://abc7chicago.com/news/man-charged-in-wrigleyville-shooting/1121875/ straw purchase? Dec 14 (NY) http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/12/two_men_shot_in_clifton_monday.html straw purchase? Dec 14 (MO) http://www.kmov.com/story/30739545/fenton-woman-22-accused-of-fatally-shooting-fianc-following-altercation-in-rolla straw purchase? Dec 14 (OR) http://www.kezi.com/news/Deputies_Investigating_Marcola_Shooting.html straw purchase? Many of these may well be from straw purchases. This also isn't a comprehensive list. C'est la vie? What are you getting at? What makes you think any of those are straw purchases? Link to comment
zoogs Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 What makes you think any of those are straw purchases? No idea. As you suggest, many of them may not be! This is to challenge, by volume, the writing off of most shootings as coming from straw purchases. Maybe the vast majority of those are illegal weapons, maybe not. Either way, the outcomes are troubling -- and that's a problem borne by all of us. Link to comment
StPaulHusker Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. I thought we were having a civilized discussion. But if you want to include all options for gun control, you need to first repeal the 2nd amendment. Then you can pass whatever kind of law you want without worrying about strict scrutiny and constitutional muster. The 2nd Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms. It says nothing about how a person has to go about obtaining them. "Keep" means buy or acquire, and own. So obtaining them is part of the protected right. By definition, if you put limits on how they may obtain them, you are infringing on the right. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/02/10/supreme-court-asked-to-clarify-what-it-means-to-bear-arms/ The Supreme Court in 2008 made it clear that the right to “keep” a gun is a personal right, and that it means one has a right to keep a functioning firearm for self-defense within the home. And? And people have differing opinions of what "keep" means. Luckily, the courts are pretty clear on it. http://harvardlawreview.org/2014/04/does-the-second-amendment-protect-firearms-commerce/ How can you have an uninfringeable right to own a gun if you don't have the same right to acquire one? The 2nd Amendment defines the right to have and carry a firearm. It doesn't define what you have to do in order to exercise that right. Correct. It doesn't say how you should do it, but it clearly says your right to do it shall not be infringed. So if they ban the sale of firearms, you think that would be constitutional? I'm guessing you didn't read the link I provided. We are going to agree to disagree on the definitions of words regarding this topic. So again, I will end it. No problem. I've been in similar arguments with people that thought banning ammo was the solution, without realizing that "ammo" is a subset of "arms". This wasn't one of those arguments. Link to comment
StPaulHusker Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. Like what? Taking away rights without due process? That's a terrible precedent. Do you support racial profiling too? What I mean is that there should be room for negotiation. People like you take the words of a politician you don't like and instantly spout out how awful they are and the country will be without ever considering that there are workable solutions from even the far left or far right of ideas. There must be a balance between acceptable risk, personal freedom, and public safety. And based off the statements above, there are people that want to deny that there is any connection between those things. "People like me" Oh... ok. I already said I'm not opposed to making changes. That doesn't mean I can't say that using the "no fly list" is asinine. This is what I find to be the problem. You have zero problem telling everyone how you don't like something but you don't say how you would fix the issue. Unless you think we don't have a violence problem. Link to comment
GBRedneck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 What makes you think any of those are straw purchases? No idea. As you suggest, many of them may not be! This is to challenge, by volume, the writing off of most shootings as coming from straw purchases. Maybe the vast majority of those are illegal weapons, maybe not. Either way, the outcomes are troubling -- and that's a problem borne by all of us. I still don't know where you're going with this. Did someone suggest that most shootings come from straw purchases? That seems highly unlikely. Link to comment
GBRedneck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Heaven forbid that all options should be on the table for a civilized discussion. Like what? Taking away rights without due process? That's a terrible precedent. Do you support racial profiling too? What I mean is that there should be room for negotiation. People like you take the words of a politician you don't like and instantly spout out how awful they are and the country will be without ever considering that there are workable solutions from even the far left or far right of ideas. There must be a balance between acceptable risk, personal freedom, and public safety. And based off the statements above, there are people that want to deny that there is any connection between those things. "People like me" Oh... ok. I already said I'm not opposed to making changes. That doesn't mean I can't say that using the "no fly list" is asinine. This is what I find to be the problem. You have zero problem telling everyone how you don't like something but you don't say how you would fix the issue. Unless you think we don't have a violence problem. Violent crime rates have been dropping like a rock for the past 30-40 years. 50% lower since the '80s. And they're still dropping. What's the problem? Not enough people understand statistics and probabilities? 1 Link to comment
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