Is Faith Moral?

[muzicman0]

Congrats...you seem to be satisfied.

 

I'm not even sure what the point in question was. I simply thought you were asking questions about faith, mine in particular. I wasn't aware that this was an argument to be won. I thought you said you honestly wanted to learn others view points. I guess knapplc was right about the intention of this thread.

[Husker_x]

Congrats...you seem to be satisfied.

 

I'm not even sure what the point in question was. I simply thought you were asking questions about faith, mine in particular. I wasn't aware that this was an argument to be won. I thought you said you honestly wanted to learn others view points. I guess knapplc was right about the intention of this thread.

 

Which was what?

 

Discussion/debate was the point of the thread, but from the tone knapplc took from the start of this thing, it seems he'd rather be left alone. Happy to do it, but if he insists on posting in a discussion/debate threat, discussion/debate is what should be expected.

 

I am interested in what you believe, but I'm also interested in why you believe it. According to knapplc, there isn't an evidentiary-based reason, which then leads me to wonder what reason could there be for positively asserting a belief in something?

 

If you're not interested in going down this road, totally fine. I don't have a scorecard by my computer. But I do harbor certain concerns about people who tell their children that they'll burn in hell forever unless they love a God when they can't produce a single piece of evidence as to why their god is the right one or even exists at all. Call me crazy, but I think it's important.

[M I K E]

Husker_x - You're pissing people off because you're forcing people with faith to justify it, when there is no way for them to give you the type of logical answer you're seeking. Faith isn't logical. You know that you can win this argument every time (in your own eyes). Also, while I don't think you're bashing Christianity, you are doing a good job of trying to undermine it which usually makes people uneasy.

 

In response to the original topic question - Faith cannot be either moral or immoral, because morality is subjective.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

[knapplc]

Baiting me into debate? How droll.

 

No, your tactics aren't new, they're not effective, and they're not interesting. You've more than shown what your point in this thread was. Thanks for the attempt at entertainment, but frankly, it wasn't all that entertaining.

 

Point for future reference - any further such "justify your religion" threads will be rolled into this one. We have five or six already. We're not going to have 10, 20, 30 of the same thread throughout the forum.

[M I K E]

Baiting me into debate? How droll.

 

No, your tactics aren't new, they're not effective, and they're not interesting. You've more than shown what your point in this thread was. Thanks for the attempt at entertainment, but frankly, it wasn't all that entertaining.

 

Point for future reference - any further such "justify your religion" threads will be rolled into this one. We have five or six already. We're not going to have 10, 20, 30 of the same thread throughout the forum.

 

That was what I was trying to say, thanks for putting it into better words. If you want to challenge religion, make that the title of the thread and be clear.

[BIGREDFAN_in_OMAHA]

Trying to explain faith to someone who has none is like trying to explain sight to someone born blind. Good luck!!

[M I K E]

Trying to explain faith to someone who has none is like trying to explain sight to someone born blind. Good luck!!

 

Exactly. I'm an atheist myself BTW

[dubsker]

Husker_x - You're pissing people off because you're forcing people with faith to justify it, when there is no way for them to give you the type of logical answer you're seeking. Faith isn't logical. You know that you can win this argument every time (in your own eyes). Also, while I don't think you're bashing Christianity, you are doing a good job of trying to undermine it which usually makes people uneasy.

 

In response to the original topic question - Faith cannot be either moral or immoral, because morality is subjective.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

Where's my eye roll emoticon?

[jnkyrdoff6]

Husker_x - You're pissing people off because you're forcing people with faith to justify it, when there is no way for them to give you the type of logical answer you're seeking. Faith isn't logical. You know that you can win this argument every time (in your own eyes). Also, while I don't think you're bashing Christianity, you are doing a good job of trying to undermine it which usually makes people uneasy.

 

In response to the original topic question - Faith cannot be either moral or immoral, because morality is subjective.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

Where's my eye roll emoticon?

I will say this in Husker_x's defense; there is no reason for anyone to get pissed off because he is stating his opinions or trying to have an open forum about religion. Although, I don't believe talking about religion will ever solve anything, he's well within his rights to attempt it, and I see no reason anyone should become offended for any reason. I've also never seen any reason why trying to undermine Christianity should make Christians feel uncomfortable. The only reason I can think of that anyone should feel uncomfortable is because there was some of that there to begin with. I used to feel uncomfortable when someone questioned something I believed in. I think all that stopped when I was like 12. I don't believe faith is immoral, but why can't Husker_x have an open forum to discuss it without people jumping all over him without actually discussing what he posted?

 

For Knap and SOCAl, I've only had the Jehovah's witnesses come up to my door once, too. I listened to everything they had to say, and took their pamphlets. I didn't feel uncomfortable or any other emotion.

[Husker_x]

Husker_x - You're pissing people off because you're forcing people with faith to justify it, when there is no way for them to give you the type of logical answer you're seeking. Faith isn't logical. You know that you can win this argument every time (in your own eyes). Also, while I don't think you're bashing Christianity, you are doing a good job of trying to undermine it which usually makes people uneasy.

 

In response to the original topic question - Faith cannot be either moral or immoral, because morality is subjective.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

Where's my eye roll emoticon?

I will say this in Husker_x's defense; there is no reason for anyone to get pissed off because he is stating his opinions or trying to have an open forum about religion. Although, I don't believe talking about religion will ever solve anything, he's well within his rights to attempt it, and I see no reason anyone should become offended for any reason. I've also never seen any reason why trying to undermine Christianity should make Christians feel uncomfortable. The only reason I can think of that anyone should feel uncomfortable is because there was some of that there to begin with. I used to feel uncomfortable when someone questioned something I believed in. I think all that stopped when I was like 12. I don't believe faith is immoral, but why can't Husker_x have an open forum to discuss it without people jumping all over him without actually discussing what he posted?

 

For Knap and SOCAl, I've only had the Jehovah's witnesses come up to my door once, too. I listened to everything they had to say, and took their pamphlets. I didn't feel uncomfortable or any other emotion.

 

I have to admit a failure in my original post, and that is that I didn't broaden the word 'faith' to include nearly as much as I perceive it to include. Meaning alien abductions, Santa Clause, crystal healing, Bigfoot, alternative 'medicine', or any number of woo woo topics which people subject themselves and others to under the most threadbare evidence or in total absence of it. Christian Scientists (not scientists who happen to be Christians) have been known to let their children die of easily treatable conditions because they think seeing a doctor violates the will of God.

 

Since I wrote the OP very quickly it didn't even occur to me to make that obvious, and since my own experiences of faith are limited to religion, two separate but related arguments get joined. Which would the explain the reactionary ad hominem about my motives and the trivial spat that followed.

 

I don't have much against Christianity per se, with the exception of certain anti-science stances and wasteful uses of money to fund plush evangelical empires masquerading as churches––I think even most Christians agree with me that starving people come before the third floor coffee bar. I won't apologize for and can't help if people feel uneasy about their faith or having it 'undermined'. As a Christian I had my beliefs challenged all the time and I welcomed it, even if it was hard. People unwilling or not ready to have that happen would do well to stay away from these arguments.

[M I K E]

Husker_x - You're pissing people off because you're forcing people with faith to justify it, when there is no way for them to give you the type of logical answer you're seeking. Faith isn't logical. You know that you can win this argument every time (in your own eyes). Also, while I don't think you're bashing Christianity, you are doing a good job of trying to undermine it which usually makes people uneasy.

 

In response to the original topic question - Faith cannot be either moral or immoral, because morality is subjective.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

Where's my eye roll emoticon?

I will say this in Husker_x's defense; there is no reason for anyone to get pissed off because he is stating his opinions or trying to have an open forum about religion. Although, I don't believe talking about religion will ever solve anything, he's well within his rights to attempt it, and I see no reason anyone should become offended for any reason. I've also never seen any reason why trying to undermine Christianity should make Christians feel uncomfortable. The only reason I can think of that anyone should feel uncomfortable is because there was some of that there to begin with. I used to feel uncomfortable when someone questioned something I believed in. I think all that stopped when I was like 12. I don't believe faith is immoral, but why can't Husker_x have an open forum to discuss it without people jumping all over him without actually discussing what he posted?

 

For Knap and SOCAl, I've only had the Jehovah's witnesses come up to my door once, too. I listened to everything they had to say, and took their pamphlets. I didn't feel uncomfortable or any other emotion.

 

I have to admit a failure in my original post, and that is that I didn't broaden the word 'faith' to include nearly as much as I perceive it to include. Meaning alien abductions, Santa Clause, crystal healing, Bigfoot, alternative 'medicine', or any number of woo woo topics which people subject themselves and others to under the most threadbare evidence or in total absence of it. Christian Scientists (not scientists who happen to be Christians) have been known to let their children die of easily treatable conditions because they think seeing a doctor violates the will of God.

 

Since I wrote the OP very quickly it didn't even occur to me to make that obvious, and since my own experiences of faith are limited to religion, two separate but related arguments get joined. Which would the explain the reactionary ad hominem about my motives and the trivial spat that followed.

 

I don't have much against Christianity per se, with the exception of certain anti-science stances and wasteful uses of money to fund plush evangelical empires masquerading as churches––I think even most Christians agree with me that starving people come before the third floor coffee bar. I won't apologize for and can't help if people feel uneasy about their faith or having it 'undermined'. As a Christian I had my beliefs challenged all the time and I welcomed it, even if it was hard. People unwilling or not ready to have that happen would do well to stay away from these arguments.

 

This type of stuff is always hard to talk about without people getting fired up. At least we can all agree that us Husker fans are the best in the nation.

[SOCALHUSKER]

 

just because there is no proof, doesn't mean that there is no evidence.

 

Can you explain this?

[muzicman0]

 

just because there is no proof, doesn't mean that there is no evidence.

 

Can you explain this?

probably a poor choice of words. What I was saying is that I can't prove to YOU that God exists. But I can provide evidence.

[Husker_x]

 

just because there is no proof, doesn't mean that there is no evidence.

 

Can you explain this?

probably a poor choice of words. What I was saying is that I can't prove to YOU that God exists. But I can provide evidence.

 

Proof is a term that seems to only have value in straight mathematics. Even the most well attested scientific theories don't 'prove' the theory in an absolute sense, but the body of evidence can suggest a reasonable conclusion. I add that only to be clear.

[Manhattan]

I just think religious people are illogical when things are said like "Well, how do you know that God didn't do that?"

 

A thought process like that is immature. That is not how our reasoning is based, nor would that kind of logic stand up to any legal scrutiny. Stating a random and totally unsubstantiated claim cannot solve any problem in a rational or logical manner. As in, you can't claim definitively that there is a God - without any evidence - simply because there isn't any absolute answer for the contrary.