***European Soccer Thread***

[Street Novelist]

Real Madrid Sign Sami Khedira To 5 Year Contract

 

According to the German newspaper Bild, Madrid paid $15 million for the Stuttgart midfielder. Khedira caught the eye of los Blancos after his amazing performance for Germany in the World Cup.

[bennychico11]

SN, do you know any way to watch English premier league games? I've heard that they broadcast them on ESPN occasionally, but I wondered if there was some (preferably free) internet method.

 

do you have FSC? (Fox Soccer Channel)

Here in KC Time Warner offers it both with standard digital and HD. You can watch games just about 24/7 on there (some replayed).

A friend of mine watches the non-TV games online (through alternative means, not necessarily approved by the FCC)...but I'm not sure how he goes about doing it.

 

 

btw, United looked great in the MLS All Star game. I missed their loss against the Wizards and only caught the second half against the All Stars, but they made that half look easy. Young players too. And sweet goals. Still amazed by that upper 90 shot by Gibson.

[Husker_x]

SN, do you know any way to watch English premier league games? I've heard that they broadcast them on ESPN occasionally, but I wondered if there was some (preferably free) internet method.

 

do you have FSC? (Fox Soccer Channel)

Here in KC Time Warner offers it both with standard digital and HD. You can watch games just about 24/7 on there (some replayed).

A friend of mine watches the non-TV games online (through alternative means, not necessarily approved by the FCC)...but I'm not sure how he goes about doing it.

 

 

btw, United looked great in the MLS All Star game. I missed their loss against the Wizards and only caught the second half against the All Stars, but they made that half look easy. Young players too. And sweet goals. Still amazed by that upper 90 shot by Gibson.

 

Sadly I do not. ESPN3 (formerly 360) has games you can watch online. Tonight there's another Manchester United match on. I wonder if ESPN3 plays international games during the regular season. That would be a pretty sweet deal.

[Street Novelist]

Wenger Calls Out Fabregas; Tells Him To End Circus

 

Speaking to Sky Sports, Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger called on his captain to end all the speculation that has gone on throughout the summer. ''In the last six months, this story has made our lives difficult, Wenger said . At the moment, what is important is that when Cesc comes back, that he comes out. For me, I have nothing more to add...The conversations with the players have to be private because I cannot come out every time I speak with a player...The speculation does not stop - who can stop the speculation? Only Cesc, that is how I feel. We cannot go into a season where every day you read about that. He has not played today, we have just played a football game and I sit here speaking about Fabregas.''

 

Fabregas is under contract for the next 5 years.

[Husker_x]

Due to my recent interest in soccer meeting a pretty profound ignorance of how it works, I had to do some research. I stumbled across this (fairly dated) article that explains the bare bones basics of major soccer leagues internationally. For people new or interested, it kind of helps you get your bearings and see the bigger picture. I'll post what the questioner posted and then the lengthy reply:

 

World Cup and FoxSports coverage of professional soccer has created my interest in the sport. As an American, I have no background knowledge about the professional leagues and clubs.

Is there a consensus on which league or leagues have the best talent and highest quality football?

(or - does nationalism influence this question)

Is there a "world series" or "super bowl" for football clubs? What is the top competition for international professional clubs?

Since clubs can buy talent from all over the world, could a top professional club beat a top national team?

 

 

Hi, thanks for getting in touch.

 

In response to your questions, the leagues that are generally considered to be the best in terms of the talent playing in them, as well as the quality of football played within them are the so-called 'Big Three' of Europe - that is the English Premier League, the Italian Serie A and the Spanish La Liga. The German Bundesliga follows closely behind these three, but is not considered prestigious enough to attract the major world stars to their clubs.

 

The main reasons behind these three leagues being considered the best in the world isn't really down to nationalism per se, rather a number of contributing factors which have built these leagues up to the standards they currently enjoy.

 

The English league is the oldest league competition in the world, having been formed in 1888, which means that is often thought of as the standard bearer for competition. Its long history has given world football a number of famous clubs such as Arsenal (based in the Islington district of London), Liverpool and of course Manchester United, who are possibly the most famous club in world football today. The English league is also highly regarded to be one of the most passionate in the world in terms of fan support (although the English game suffered greatly from hooliganism in the late-'70's through to the 1980's, the problem of hooliganism has largely been eradicated from the game), and the standard of the stadia within the league is second to none, mainly thanks to the Hillsborough disaster of 1989 (in which 96 people were tragically killed, forcing a review of how stadiums were built).

 

Spain's La Liga is enjoying a renaissance at the moment. It wasn't really considered to be amongst the best in the world until the mid-1990's when Real Madrid started to become dominant in European football (with Champions League wins in 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2002). The biggest clubs within La Liga are Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Valencia and Deportivo de La Coruna, although it is only Real Madrid and Barcelona who have made any major impact on the world game.

 

The Italian Serie A was considered for many years to be THE pinnacle of club football, with many major clubs such as Associazione Calcio Milano (or AC Milan as they are more commonly known), Internazionale (of Milan), Juventus (of Turin) and the two Roma clubs AS Roma and SS Lazio being amongst the giants of the game. A massive injection of money into these clubs in the 1980's reinforced their dominance of the European club scene with Italian clubs often featuring in European Cup and UEFA Cup Finals.

 

The one common factor within these three leagues is money, with most of the major club football transfers being between these leagues. For example, the current world transfer record is £49.5million (around $60m) for the French captain Zinedine Zidane, who signed for Real Madrid of Spain from Juventus of Italy. It is highly unlikely that any club outside of England, Spain or Italy will ever be able to break that record by signing someone for more money.

 

As well as the German league, several other European leagues are also considered to be quite prestigious, but are nowhere near the standard of the 'Big Three'. Holland's KPN-Telecompetition features Ajax Amsterdam, Philips SV Eindhoven and Feyenoord Rotterdam, all of whom have won the European Cup in their history. France features Olympique Marseille, Paris St-Germain and AS Monaco, all considered 'big' clubs in the European scene. Scotland, whilst currently in decline, have the two Glasgow clubs - Glasgow Celtic and Glasgow Rangers.

 

Outside Europe, the only leagues that are considered to be 'major' are those of Argentina and Brazil. Although the United States and Japan are trying to compete with their leagues, neither have the historical fan base yet to be able to compete with the more established leagues. America's MLS (Major League Soccer) was only formed in 1996, with Japan's J-League being formed three years earlier.

 

As for a 'World Series' for football clubs, the top competition for international clubs is generally agreed to be the European Champions League, which is open to the Champions of all 42 European leagues, the runners-up of 20 of the leagues from countries with larger populations, and sometimes the third-placed and even fourth-placed clubs from the biggest leagues such as Spain, England, Italy and Germany, although this system is currently under review from UEFA, the European governing body. The winners of the Champions League are crowned Champions of Europe.

 

The South American equivalent is the CONMEBOL trophy which, like the Champions League, is played for by the Champions of the South American countries, as well as a number of runners-up. The winners of this competition are crowned the Champions of South America.

 

Each year from 1960 until 2000, with the exception of 1977 and 1980, a one-off match was played between the Champions of Europe and the Champions of South America to crown the 'World Club Champions'. This was changed in the year 2000 when FIFA launched the FIFA World Club Championship, a 'World Cup' for club teams.

 

The World Club Championship is played for between the Champions of Europe, South America, North America, Asia, Africa and Oceania, as well as two teams from the host country to make it an eight-team tournament. The first tournament was played in Brazil, and was won by Corinthians of Brazil. The tournament is likely to be played every two years from 2003 (the 2002 tournament was delayed due to the World Cup). The original 'World Club Championship', played for between the European and South American champions is still played for, with a new name - the Intercontinental Cup but is no longer as prestigious as it once was. Although the FIFA World Club Championship is the first truly 'World Club Championship', the European Champions League is still considered to be the best competition simply because of the standard of competition within the tournament (ie, the World Club Championship is likely to be won only by European or South American clubs for the first few years because the standard of the other continents is relatively poor).

 

As for your last question, it is likely that a big club team such as Real Madrid or Manchester United could defeat a national team such as Brazil or Germany. Even more so when you consider that the club team's players are together for around 40 weeks of the year, and the national teams are together for only around 8 weeks of the year. Club teams playing National teams is rare, although Sunderland of the English Premier League did actually play the Republic of Ireland in May of this year, Ireland winning 3-0.

 

If you have any more queries about the game in general, please feel free to contact me at paul@sunderland1973.freeserve.co.uk and I will be happy to help.

 

If you are interested in finding out more about the history of the game, I would recommend finding a copy of the following books :

 

The Guinness Book of World Soccer; Guy Oliver; Guinness, 1992. **** (would have been a five-star recommendation, but it loses points for it only being printed in 1992 and having no follow-up editions).

 

Soccer : The World Game; Desmond Morris; Oxford, 1995 *** (ideal if you want to learn more about the history of the teams in terms of their following)

 

Rothman's Football Yearbook; Jack Rollin; Headline, 2002 (a new edition printed each year; concentrates mainly on the leagues of England, Scotland, Wales and the Irish leagues, but does have comprehensive sections on world leagues.) ****

 

European Football Yearbook; Jack Rollin; Headline, 2002 (like the Rothman's edition, but features more prominently on the European leagues. HIGHLY recommended) *****

 

I hope I was of some help to you.

 

LINK

[zoogs]

Wow, I had NO idea MLS only began play in 1996.

 

What did we have before then? NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and ...

[Husker_x]

Wow, I had NO idea MLS only began play in 1996.

 

What did we have before then? NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and ...

 

I'd throw the NCAA in there. College football is, what, number two among watched sports in the US?

[zoogs]

Yea, I was just listing the pro leagues, but you're right. I mean, people played soccer here before MLS right? We didn't have a major pro soccer league?

[Husker_x]

I honestly have no idea on that. I'd have to research it. The appetite for soccer in America seems to be growing but if the MLS is only 14-15 years old, it's an infant. A lot of grassroots support has to be generated before it takes off. (BTW, selling a player like Landon Donovan seems to be about the worst idea the Galaxy could have at this point, no matter what kind of money they throw at you). Another example, I was flipping channels earlier and discovered the Big 10 Network was showing a college soccer game between Ohio State and Penn State. At the top of the screen it said 'championship," but when you looked at the bleachers, you'd have thought you were at a poorly attended grade school match.

 

It's kind of strange here in the cooling embers of the World Cup. For about two months you had three matches on every day until the late stages, all in their high-def glory. Now you're lucky to see one game on a week––I think the MLS is in their season as we speak. I really hope ESPN or at least their online player gets some access for us.

[Street Novelist]

 

Soccer will never take off in this country. It will always be a niche sport. Americans like big numbers and collision. That is why football and basketball are so popular. Most Americans don't have the patience required to watch soccer. Which is fine by me and other real soccer fans who appreciate it for the beautiful sport it is. It is not ESPN's fault for it not taking off. They could schedule an MLS game everyday and it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike baseball, basketball and football, soccer was not invented by the United States. It is not "our" sport. If you really want to understand soccer, I would suggest joining a forum dedicated to FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, Manchester United, Liverpool, etc. They have some of the most dedicated fans in the world. Dare I say, even more die-hard than Husker fans (if that is possible).

[Husker_x]

 

Soccer will never take off in this country. It will always be a niche sport. Americans like big numbers and collision. That is why football and basketball are so popular. Most Americans don't have the patience required to watch soccer. Which is fine by me and other real soccer fans who appreciate it for the beautiful sport it is. It is not ESPN's fault for it not taking off. They could schedule an MLS game everyday and it wouldn't make a difference. Unlike baseball, basketball and football, soccer was not invented by the United States. It is not "our" sport. If you really want to understand soccer, I would suggest joining a forum dedicated to FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, Manchester United, Liverpool, etc. They have some of the most dedicated fans in the world. Dare I say, even more die-hard than Husker fans (if that is possible).

 

I understand the lack of optimism on soccer's future, but if I may paraphrase The Fox and the Hound: Never is a long time. Turn the clocks back a century or so and you had baseball as the dominant and nearly exclusive American sport. Football barely existed. How could it ever unseat the American Past time? Well, it did.

 

Novels were once a niche market for upper class women. How could they ever unseat the theater as the dominant art form? Well, they did, and cinema one-upped that.

 

The issue to bear in mind his that while soccer IN AMERICA has very little history behind it, across the world it has more than any other sport. When the EPL starts up in August, I'll be able to switch on my computer and something amazing will happen. I'll be able to watch Manchester U play Liverpool and all from the comfort of my home. As young as the MLS is, even when it started that was impossible. Access has improved dramatically. Every major entertainment event was once a niche market, but we're technologically fortunate enough to have access to the world's sport in ways unheard of even ten short years ago.

 

I'm a realist on the subject, don't get me wrong. To say soccer is fighting and uphill battle is to insult the cliffside they're actually scaling. It may take fifty years before your average American can name their closest MLS team. But we are all used to an accelerated media. With how good access to soccer is today, imagine what it will be like in ten more years. The MLS has been working to increase its street cred. With proper marketing and management I think it could find a place for itself with the public.

[Street Novelist]

That's all nice and good. But it comes down to this: the best players in the world will never play in the MLS. They will play in Europe...Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga...These are the major leagues. The MLS is a minor league. Which would you rather watch? A major league baseball game, like the Yankees vs. the Red Sox, or a AAA game with unknowns taking the field?

[zoogs]

That's a fair point, BUT, there are soccer-crazed fans all over the world in countries that haven't the slightest connection to those leagues. Like East/Southeast Asia. Soccer, through these top leagues, enjoys a kind of reach over there that it hasn't established in the US, even while the Korean soccer leagues are probably only comparable to MLS. It doesn't stop a lot of enthusiasm for the sport.

 

So it's not really about MLS being better or not. But this sort of just points to your previous point, that soccer on the whole just isn't very big in the US, fundamentally. That's a big step to overcome.

[Husker_x]

That's all nice and good. But it comes down to this: the best players in the world will never play in the MLS. They will play in Europe...Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga...These are the major leagues. The MLS is a minor league. Which would you rather watch? A major league baseball game, like the Yankees vs. the Red Sox, or a AAA game with unknowns taking the field?

 

Yes, but you're talking right now, literally in the opening act of the MLS's run. It may be 'minor league' now, but it does have some coveted players, and it happens to reside in a country with a shitton o' bank, if you know what I mean. All I'm saying is get it on TV, get fans to the games, get the football talk at the water cooler to contain a reference to soccer now and again and you'll have yourself a start. If you can find a way to get European leagues televised, too, you might see a sudden surge in interest.

 

It's possible, that's all I'm saying.

[Street Novelist]

 

Yes, but you're talking right now, literally in the opening act of the MLS's run. It may be 'minor league' now, but it does have some coveted players, and it happens to reside in a country with a shitton o' bank, if you know what I mean. All I'm saying is get it on TV, get fans to the games, get the football talk at the water cooler to contain a reference to soccer now and again and you'll have yourself a start. If you can find a way to get European leagues televised, too, you might see a sudden surge in interest.

 

It's possible, that's all I'm saying.

 

What year are you living in? The MLS has been around since 1996 and it still has the smallest amount of fan support among any of the major sports in this country. I don't know if you realize this, but the players get paid more in Europe than they do here. Ronaldo was signed for over $100 million by Real Madrid. Get it on tv? You do realize MLS games have been on tv since 1996 right? European games are also on tv...it's called Fox Soccer Channel