Anyone happen to flip past Ernie Chambers talking last night about Suh?

[sd'sker]

When I saw this thread title on the board I intentionally stayed away. I knew that a thread about a black liberal in Nebraska would just turn into character assassinations. Huskerboard, you didn't disappoint!

 

I don't often agree with what he says but he is the most important politician Nebraska has had in my lifetime. He is truly a voice crying out in the wilderness. Most of the rest have just been conservative yes men. Very uninspired and irrelevant.

 

Although racially charged, were not his comments really about college athletes being exploited for $ by the university and the NCAA. I'm pretty sure we've discussed that in the past here and many of you were making the same point as Chambers (without the slave owner talk). Hmmm........idiot?

 

Oh, and, one of the biggest delusions we live under is that we live in a democracy. Republic all the way.

 

SD Husker gets +1 for standing up in this thing.

thank you, it wasn't easy, and you got it right. SUH was exploited and then he gives back money. Doesn't mean he is a bad guy, just insanely generous, but he has the money to, so it is no different to him.

 

Also, when i said "free-thinking democracy", i should have said "free-thinking nation". HuskerGBR, we could have avoided a huge argument had i just been more accurate in communicating my thoughts. i sincerely apologize for this, but at least everyone got a lesson on the nuanced differences between republic and democracy. also, i think you were a little confused in what i was saying (my fault) which made me confused in your response (which lead to my, 'poorly written post' quip. it was because my post was poorly written and i did not understand what you were responding to, or why yo would bring up the difference between democracy and republic, as i was only trying to defend chambers and not discuss the parlance of political thought). i did attack you, but not because i was upset with being schooled in the definition of republic, i'll gladly admit i was wrong, but because i get a little passionate about politics and think chambers is misunderstand, and at least does not deserve personal attacks on his character.

[sd'sker]

When I saw this thread title on the board I intentionally stayed away. I knew that a thread about a black liberal in Nebraska would just turn into character assassinations. Huskerboard, you didn't disappoint!

 

I don't often agree with what he says but he is the most important politician Nebraska has had in my lifetime. He is truly a voice crying out in the wilderness. Most of the rest have just been conservative yes men. Very uninspired and irrelevant.

 

Although racially charged, were not his comments really about college athletes being exploited for $ by the university and the NCAA. I'm pretty sure we've discussed that in the past here and many of you were making the same point as Chambers (without the slave owner talk). Hmmm........idiot?

 

Oh, and, one of the biggest delusions we live under is that we live in a democracy. Republic all the way.

 

SD Husker gets +1 for standing up in this thing.

 

That's not to be glossed over. The very reason people are down on Ernie Chambers is because he's a racist. Ignoring that is to ignore the very foundation of Chambers' career in the Unicam. It's like having an in-depth discussion of Husker athletics and not talking about the football program. Ignore that and you ignore the heart of everything Chambers did as a state senator.

 

It's OK to support a dissenter. Dissent is a tremendous freedom we are allowed. But not every dissenter is to be heralded simply because they dissent, nor is all dissent equal. A person who obstructs the legal process and costs taxpayers millions of dollars simply to be obstructive is not helping the political process. Glossing over Chambers' often unnecessary obstructions as some form of laudable "importance" is frankly laughable.

 

It is not enough simply to cry out in the wilderness - the message must be worthy, and it must be beneficial. Chambers' legacy can be summed up by looking at the state of his district today. He wasted so much time "fighting the man" that he let his district slide into abject poverty. Where was the legislation he introduced to help his constituents? How did his district prosper under his watch? All his dissent amounted to so much hot air, and his constituents suffered because instead of electing an advocate, they elected a self-aggrandizing blowhard.

racially charged does not equal racist. he may appear to be racist because his thought is unconventionally, but that does not make it automatically racist. i think it is just easier to label him a racist and dismiss what he is/trying to say than to take him seriously and give consideration to his thoughts.

[knapplc]

racially charged does not equal racist. he may appear to be racist because his thought is unconventionally, but that does not make it automatically racist. i think it is just easier to label him a racist and dismiss what he is/trying to say than to take him seriously and give consideration to his thoughts.

 

Don't simply presume that I know nothing about Ernie Chambers. I know quite a bit about him; I would be surprised if anyone in this thread knows more. I'm speaking from a position of knowledge, and I am not wrong in my assessment.

[sd'sker]

racially charged does not equal racist. he may appear to be racist because his thought is unconventionally, but that does not make it automatically racist. i think it is just easier to label him a racist and dismiss what he is/trying to say than to take him seriously and give consideration to his thoughts.

 

Don't simply presume that I know nothing about Ernie Chambers. I know quite a bit about him; I would be surprised if anyone in this thread knows more. I'm speaking from a position of knowledge, and I am not wrong in my assessment.

that's a thought ending cliche, just to claim you know more about chambers than anyone else, and then say that you are right by the authority you have bestowed upon yourself.

i did not claim any authority on your knowledge of chambers. what i was responding to was your claim that he is racist. he is not racist and i would be surprised if anyone knew more about race relations than me. i am speaking from a position of knowledge, and i am not wrong in my assessment.

also, i never simply presume, that is why i don't presume chambers is a racist.

[knapplc]

racially charged does not equal racist. he may appear to be racist because his thought is unconventionally, but that does not make it automatically racist. i think it is just easier to label him a racist and dismiss what he is/trying to say than to take him seriously and give consideration to his thoughts.

 

Don't simply presume that I know nothing about Ernie Chambers. I know quite a bit about him; I would be surprised if anyone in this thread knows more. I'm speaking from a position of knowledge, and I am not wrong in my assessment.

that's a thought ending cliche, just to claim you know more about chambers than anyone else, and then say that you are right by the authority you have bestowed upon yourself.

i did not claim any authority on your knowledge of chambers. what i was responding to was your claim that he is racist. he is not racist and i would be surprised if anyone knew more about race relations than me. i am speaking from a position of knowledge, and i am not wrong in my assessment.

also, i never simply presume, that is why i don't presume chambers is a racist.

OK, let's put it this way. Of the two of us, one of us has a badge and works in the discrimination field. If that's not you, then you're beginning to get the point.

[sd'sker]

racially charged does not equal racist. he may appear to be racist because his thought is unconventionally, but that does not make it automatically racist. i think it is just easier to label him a racist and dismiss what he is/trying to say than to take him seriously and give consideration to his thoughts.

 

Don't simply presume that I know nothing about Ernie Chambers. I know quite a bit about him; I would be surprised if anyone in this thread knows more. I'm speaking from a position of knowledge, and I am not wrong in my assessment.

that's a thought ending cliche, just to claim you know more about chambers than anyone else, and then say that you are right by the authority you have bestowed upon yourself.

i did not claim any authority on your knowledge of chambers. what i was responding to was your claim that he is racist. he is not racist and i would be surprised if anyone knew more about race relations than me. i am speaking from a position of knowledge, and i am not wrong in my assessment.

also, i never simply presume, that is why i don't presume chambers is a racist.

OK, let's put it this way. Of the two of us, one of us has a badge and works in the discrimination field. If that's not you, then you're beginning to get the point.

why one of the two? i thought this board was anonymous. also, i was a diversity agent at my college, which i was accepted to based on a scholarship from the office of multicultural affairs for my multicultural community service. i, too, have bona fides.

[macroboy]

The voice crying out in the wilderness will always be dismissed as unworthy and harmful by the status quo.

 

Was not his district already in poverty? When we say "his constituents" we might all know who we are talking about right? Do you really think any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE?

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district.

 

The guy has gone too far more than once but that is what it takes to propel possible change down the road.

[macroboy]

BTW- a few years ago a friend of mine was working at Kinkos. The Broncos came in with their draft book. (He made un-approved copies.) It was this huge catalogue of men in boxers, with their measurables and assessment of their skills. Pages and pages and pages of them- almost all black men.

 

As a sports fan I was excited to see it but was grossed out after very few pages. It just felt wrong, like it was a catalogue of people to be bid on, picked, purchased, traded.

 

The strongest argument that Chambers has failed is that we are currently arguing over things he has said in the past and neglecting the point of his recent comments.

 

Professional football could be looked at as another place where people are treated like property and that the racial stats don't paint a pretty picture. It is even worse in college athletics because universities make $$$$ and we all pretend like these athletes are there to go to school.

 

I don't believe Suh is stupid and I think his donation to the university is a gracious and awesome thing. I think he is a very bright, well-spoken and humble individual. Ernie's comments are grounded in some fact. He went too far with the personal attacks but too far is what he does.

[knapplc]

The voice crying out in the wilderness will always be dismissed as unworthy and harmful by the status quo.

 

Was not his district already in poverty? When we say "his constituents" we might all know who we are talking about right? Do you really think any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE?

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district.

 

The guy has gone too far more than once but that is what it takes to propel possible change down the road.

 

The level of poverty grew under Chambers, it didn't decrease. The breeding ground for the gang violence we see today grew under Chambers.

 

And your question of whether "any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE" smacks of washing the whole state as racist, which it most certainly is not. Nor are the senators elected to the Unicam all racists. It is exactly that kind of broad-brush painting that gave Chambers such a bad name around here.

 

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district? Really? Exactly how have they benefited? I would really like to know that, because from what I can see, they've been hamstrung by a wholly ineffective representative. I would love to know how they benefited from Chambers' representation.

 

The problem with Chambers was that he was more bombast than brilliant. He never learned the truth of "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Chambers was all vinegar, all the time, and his district suffered and still suffers to this day because he was more concerned with having parks named after himself than in providing proper representation.

[sd'sker]

The voice crying out in the wilderness will always be dismissed as unworthy and harmful by the status quo.

 

Was not his district already in poverty? When we say "his constituents" we might all know who we are talking about right? Do you really think any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE?

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district.

 

The guy has gone too far more than once but that is what it takes to propel possible change down the road.

 

The level of poverty grew under Chambers, it didn't decrease. The breeding ground for the gang violence we see today grew under Chambers.

 

And your question of whether "any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE" smacks of washing the whole state as racist, which it most certainly is not. Nor are the senators elected to the Unicam all racists. It is exactly that kind of broad-brush painting that gave Chambers such a bad name around here.

 

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district? Really? Exactly how have they benefited? I would really like to know that, because from what I can see, they've been hamstrung by a wholly ineffective representative. I would love to know how they benefited from Chambers' representation.

 

The problem with Chambers was that he was more bombast than brilliant. He never learned the truth of "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Chambers was all vinegar, all the time, and his district suffered and still suffers to this day because he was more concerned with having parks named after himself than in providing proper representation.

knapplc, i like you, but i do not necessarily agree with everything you are saying, even though i do not think you are necessarily wrong.

[knapplc]

I like you too, sd'sker.

[sd'sker]

i am just compelled to defend chambers, because i think people over react to him, but that does not make him infallible, i just think the criticisms should be proportionate to the actions, and your responses have been quite reasonable.

[macroboy]

The voice crying out in the wilderness will always be dismissed as unworthy and harmful by the status quo.

 

Was not his district already in poverty? When we say "his constituents" we might all know who we are talking about right? Do you really think any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE?

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district.

 

The guy has gone too far more than once but that is what it takes to propel possible change down the road.

 

The level of poverty grew under Chambers, it didn't decrease. The breeding ground for the gang violence we see today grew under Chambers.

 

And your question of whether "any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE" smacks of washing the whole state as racist, which it most certainly is not. Nor are the senators elected to the Unicam all racists. It is exactly that kind of broad-brush painting that gave Chambers such a bad name around here.

 

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district? Really? Exactly how have they benefited? I would really like to know that, because from what I can see, they've been hamstrung by a wholly ineffective representative. I would love to know how they benefited from Chambers' representation.

 

The problem with Chambers was that he was more bombast than brilliant. He never learned the truth of "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Chambers was all vinegar, all the time, and his district suffered and still suffers to this day because he was more concerned with having parks named after himself than in providing proper representation.

 

Increasing poverty and gang violence seems a little much to lay at his feet. I don't think he is that powerful. Nor do you from your arguments. If it got worse during his time than he certainly has a part in it.

 

Better because the community he represented was in fact represented by a black man that wouldn't act white. Not a financial gain but an image one perhaps? Maybe not too thus the way I phrased my point.

 

Agree about the flies and vinegar thus my next post.

 

Racism is not wearing a white hood or burning crosses. It is far more subtle than that and I do believe that it is rooted in the NE way of life. People tend to see those that aren't white conservative Christians (conservative Christian is the biggest oxymoron of the current America) as lesser than or weirdos. At least they did in the town I grew up in. I don't expect people to agree with this but it is how I see it.

 

The thing about parks named after him just makes him typical. I do wonder how many parks in NE are named after someone not of Anglo decent.

 

BTW- I love this kind of thing. At some point I do need to get to work but I'm in for a while.

[macroboy]

The voice crying out in the wilderness will always be dismissed as unworthy and harmful by the status quo.

 

Was not his district already in poverty? When we say "his constituents" we might all know who we are talking about right? Do you really think any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE?

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district.

 

The guy has gone too far more than once but that is what it takes to propel possible change down the road.

 

The level of poverty grew under Chambers, it didn't decrease. The breeding ground for the gang violence we see today grew under Chambers.

 

And your question of whether "any legislation aimed at benefiting his constituency has a chance of being passed in NE" smacks of washing the whole state as racist, which it most certainly is not. Nor are the senators elected to the Unicam all racists. It is exactly that kind of broad-brush painting that gave Chambers such a bad name around here.

 

One could argue his constituency benefited from having such a loud voice from their district? Really? Exactly how have they benefited? I would really like to know that, because from what I can see, they've been hamstrung by a wholly ineffective representative. I would love to know how they benefited from Chambers' representation.

 

The problem with Chambers was that he was more bombast than brilliant. He never learned the truth of "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Chambers was all vinegar, all the time, and his district suffered and still suffers to this day because he was more concerned with having parks named after himself than in providing proper representation.

knapplc, i like you, but i do not necessarily agree with everything you are saying, even though i do not think you are necessarily wrong.

I too agree with this.

[macroboy]

i am just compelled to defend chambers, because i think people over react to him, but that does not make him infallible, i just think the criticisms should be proportionate to the actions, and your responses have been quite reasonable.

 

and I agree with this.