carlfense Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Just google "hamas breaks truce" and you'll find about a hundred examples. Of course you can tie those instances to Israeli activity, which can in turn be tied to Arab activity. It's a never-ending mishmash of retaliation. And you can go back to 1947 and find instances of Arab terrorism killing Jews in marketplaces, and you can go back beyond that to find Israeli atrocities. OF COURSE it hinges on land. You shoe-horned an entire country into a space where it didn't exist previously. But to state that Israel is "the aggressor" simply based on land is missing the point, and giving an unnecessarily free pass to the Arabs. You keep saying, Cactus, that Israel is to blame, and citing Israeli wrongs. The truth is that both are in the wrong - and both are in the right. THIS. It's the Hatfield's and McCoy's. The original offense/offender is lost in a running mishmash of abuses by both sides. Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 as far as saying Hamas routinely breaks truces seems to be just an assumption of yours. Ummm..... nope. Pretty much an established fact. oh so google search results of entries that support a claim. You win..you win. LOL Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 as far as saying Hamas routinely breaks truces seems to be just an assumption of yours. Ummm..... nope. Pretty much an established fact. oh so google search results in entries that support a claim. You win..you win. LOL Well.... yes. How would you support your contention that Hamas breaking truces is "just an assumption?" Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 What's funny is that the first result in that google search is of Israel breaking a truce. http://www.guardian....thepalestinians A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory. Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 as far as saying Hamas routinely breaks truces seems to be just an assumption of yours. Ummm..... nope. Pretty much an established fact. oh so google search results in entries that support a claim. You win..you win. LOL Well.... yes. How would you support your contention that Hamas breaking truces is "just an assumption?" provide the actual links to the articles that show it............ Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Why is that funny? At no time did I claim that Israel doesn't break truces. They do. Israel breaks truces, Hamas breaks truces, the PLO broke truces.... the list goes on. It's not one-sided like you're presenting. It's a situation of mutual blame. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 provide the actual links to the articles that show it............ I did. Click the little google link I gave you already. Once there, click on any of the links on that page. I think you owe me an apology for making me type this. Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 provide the actual links to the articles that show it............ I did. Click the little google link I gave you already. Once there, click on any of the links on that page. I think you owe me an apology for making me type this. It's lazy to just show google search results. You made a claim...I asked you to back it up..and now you want me to do your work. At least just admit it's what you think to be true but you don't want to take the time to provide evidence. but I did click on the first 2 results that weren't jewish/israeli sources and they were both of Israel breaking truces. UPDATE - and I didn't clam Hamas has never broken a cease fire. I just wanted an example of one because I couldn't think of one. From my readings over the years it's Israel that usually if not always breaks them. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Your arguing technique is weird. You're shown, by the simplest of methods, that your assertion is wrong, and you want to claim that you're right because I didn't post a link in this thread? How does a person even come up with this stuff? Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 For anyone that wants a better understanding of what's going on over there check out this award winning doc on it. We get the Israelie side all the time from our media...this will show the other side. The side I have been trying to give. Pay attention to who is in this doc...where they come from. When you hear people giving the other side or disputing what's said here it's virtually always someone that has some sort of stake in Israel. The vast majority of the sources I use and that are used in this doc are Jewish/Israeli or international sources. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_jvXnPG9Xc Occupation 101: Voice of the Silenced Majority is a 2006 documentary film on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict directed by Sufyan Omeish and Abdallah Omeish, and narrated by Alison Weir, founder of If Americans Knew. The film focuses on the effects of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and discusses events from the rise of Zionism to the Second Intifada and Israel's unilateral disengagement plan, presenting its perspective through dozens of interviews, questioning the nature of Israeli-American relations — in particular, the Israeli military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and the ethics of US monetary involvement.[1] Occupation 101 includes interviews with mostly American and Israeli scholars, religious leaders, humanitarian workers, and NGO representatives — more than half of whom are Jewish — who are critical of the injustices and human rights abuses stemming from Israeli policy in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_101 Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Out of curiosity, which members of "our media" is/are pro-Israel, to the point where they're hiding "the truth" about this situation from Americans? Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Your arguing technique is weird. You're shown, by the simplest of methods, that your assertion is wrong, and you want to claim that you're right because I didn't post a link in this thread? How does a person even come up with this stuff? You made that claim that Hamas always or usually breaks truces. I asked if you had any examples. You told me to google it and then showed a link of results from a google search on "hamas breaks truce". That is lazy on your part, because it then makes me weed through all the results to try and find something viable. THAT should your work to do since you made the claim. Follow what I'm saying? Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It's amusing that you'd rather go on and on about the fact that I didn't copypasta an article here than admit your assertion is wrong. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Except that Hamas is notorious for making ceasefire deals with Israel and then breaking them once the Israelis let their guard down. Believing that Hamas would adhere to a 10-year truce is a nice utopian view, but nobody anywhere trusts that. If you really believe that Hamas is more likely to break a cease fire based on past history, then you are ignorant of reality. Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Out of curiosity, which members of "our media" is/are pro-Israel, to the point where they're hiding "the truth" about this situation from Americans? It's not that they all want to do it...and same w/ politicians. Some may not be aware they are doing it. But it's political suiced to oppose Israel in ANY fashion...and pretty much the same goes for media. The Israel lobby is VERY powerful. They have people watching the media like hawks and have organized efforts to attack any outlet that is at all critical of Israel. So it's simply easiest to not criticize Israel. Besides more AMericans could care less what happens to a bunch of 3 world people on the other side of the planet anyway. As for Politicians...if you run for say congress someone from the lobby will visit you and see if you will be a friend or foe of Israel. If they think you will be against them in ANY way not only will you not get their support, but your opponent will get it. So again, most just go along w/ it...because who cares about Muslims on the other side of the planet. It's not a conspiriacy...the lobby is ran the same way other lobbies are, it's just that this lobby is so well ran and powerful that it has a great influence. THere is a great book on this subject by 2 professors called "THe Israel Lobby". VERY GOOD book. and like I said earlier...the religius right is a big part of the lobby. http://www.barnesand...he+israel+lobby Link to comment
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