The AWOL Romney Tax Returns - what's the holdup?

[krill]

This doesn’t even venture into the absurdity concerning admitted tax cheat Timothy Geitner who arguably influences our day to day financial situation more than about anyone.

 

Geitner failed to pay what, like $15k in Social Security and Medicare contributions while he was working overseas at the IMF because he was unaware the employer contribution had been reimbursed to him? Romney said at the time that should disqualify Geitner, while he (Romney) has intentionally used tax shelters to avoid paying millions, if not tens of millions of dollars in taxes. I challenge you to find a public servant who is guilty of tax evasion on that level to use as a "but someone else did it too!" argument.

[Comish]

This doesn’t even venture into the absurdity concerning admitted tax cheat Timothy Geitner who arguably influences our day to day financial situation more than about anyone.

 

Geitner failed to pay what, like $15k in Social Security and Medicare contributions while he was working overseas at the IMF because he was unaware the employer contribution had been reimbursed to him? Romney said at the time that should disqualify Geitner, while he (Romney) has intentionally used tax shelters to avoid paying millions, if not tens of millions of dollars in taxes. I challenge you to find a public servant who is guilty of tax evasion on that level to use as a "but someone else did it too!" argument.

You do understand the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance??

Most of us take whatever legal steps are allowed to lower the burden of taxation.

The principle is the same regardless of the size of the return.

[carlfense]

This doesn’t even venture into the absurdity concerning admitted tax cheat Timothy Geitner who arguably influences our day to day financial situation more than about anyone.

 

Geitner failed to pay what, like $15k in Social Security and Medicare contributions while he was working overseas at the IMF because he was unaware the employer contribution had been reimbursed to him? Romney said at the time that should disqualify Geitner, while he (Romney) has intentionally used tax shelters to avoid paying millions, if not tens of millions of dollars in taxes. I challenge you to find a public servant who is guilty of tax evasion on that level to use as a "but someone else did it too!" argument.

You do understand the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance??

Most of us take whatever legal steps are allowed to lower the burden of taxation.

The principle is the same regardless of the size of the return.

How do we know which Romney did? Have you seen his returns?

[Comish]

So, it's ok for Mitt to ask to see his potential VP tax returns but it's not ok for the American public to see Mitt's.

 

http://www.rawstory....for-vp-vetting/

From your own link:

“I’m not a business,” Romney insisted. “We have a process in this country, which was established by law, which provides for the transparency which candidates are required to meet. I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

 

Now, we may not like it, but if what he has released satisfies the legal requirements...............too bad.

[Comish]

This doesn’t even venture into the absurdity concerning admitted tax cheat Timothy Geitner who arguably influences our day to day financial situation more than about anyone.

 

Geitner failed to pay what, like $15k in Social Security and Medicare contributions while he was working overseas at the IMF because he was unaware the employer contribution had been reimbursed to him? Romney said at the time that should disqualify Geitner, while he (Romney) has intentionally used tax shelters to avoid paying millions, if not tens of millions of dollars in taxes. I challenge you to find a public servant who is guilty of tax evasion on that level to use as a "but someone else did it too!" argument.

You do understand the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance??

Most of us take whatever legal steps are allowed to lower the burden of taxation.

The principle is the same regardless of the size of the return.

How do we know which Romney did? Have you seen his returns?

No, but I haven't seen yours either. But to reiterate from an earlier post.....

 

"I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

 

If he hasn't done that.........then I'm sure he'll be held accountable. Until/unless that occurs, this is a manufactured distraction designed to draw attention away from the abysmal performance of his opponent.

[carlfense]

No, but I haven't seen yours either. But to reiterate from an earlier post.....

 

"I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

 

If he hasn't done that.........then I'm sure he'll be held accountable. Until/unless that occurs, this is a manufactured distraction designed to draw attention away from the abysmal performance of his opponent.

It's interesting . . . you seem to think that personal taxes are an issue when it's Geitner . . . but when it's Romney it's a "manufactured distraction."

 

Do taxes matter or don't they? Is it entirely dependent on whether there is a ( D ) or an ( R ) after their name?

[Comish]

No, but I haven't seen yours either. But to reiterate from an earlier post.....

 

"I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

 

If he hasn't done that.........then I'm sure he'll be held accountable. Until/unless that occurs, this is a manufactured distraction designed to draw attention away from the abysmal performance of his opponent.

It's interesting . . . you seem to think that personal taxes are an issue when it's Geitner . . . but when it's Romney it's a "manufactured distraction."

 

Do taxes matter or don't they? Is it entirely dependent on whether there is a ( D ) or an ( R ) after their name?

Not true at all.

I'm against ANY tax CHEATING. Geitner is a cheater. I only used him as an example of the hypocrisy of those making an issue out of Romney. He hasn't been guilty of ANYTHING illegal. He has been targeted because opponents WANT him to release more than is required by law. (btw, I'm on record multiple times on this board that I think that stance he is taking is allowing this to go on and don't agree with it). I'm saying the comparison of Geitner being proven a cheater and the wish that (d)'s want more releases are apples and oranges. IF Romney is ever PROVEN guilty of tax evasion, then he is no better than Geitner. I also see hypocrisy in Wasserman-Shultz demanding to see MR's returns and stonewalling on releasing her own.

[carlfense]

No, but I haven't seen yours either. But to reiterate from an earlier post.....

 

"I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

 

If he hasn't done that.........then I'm sure he'll be held accountable. Until/unless that occurs, this is a manufactured distraction designed to draw attention away from the abysmal performance of his opponent.

It's interesting . . . you seem to think that personal taxes are an issue when it's Geitner . . . but when it's Romney it's a "manufactured distraction."

 

Do taxes matter or don't they? Is it entirely dependent on whether there is a ( D ) or an ( R ) after their name?

Not true at all.

I'm against ANY tax CHEATING. Geitner is a cheater. I only used him as an example of the hypocrisy of those making an issue out of Romney. He hasn't been guilty of ANYTHING illegal. He has been targeted because opponents WANT him to release more than is required by law. (btw, I'm on record multiple times on this board that I think that stance he is taking is allowing this to go on and don't agree with it). I'm saying the comparison of Geitner being proven a cheater and the wish that (d)'s want more releases are apples and oranges. IF Romney is ever PROVEN guilty of tax evasion, then he is no better than Geitner. I also see hypocrisy in Wasserman-Shultz demanding to see MR's returns and stonewalling on releasing her own.

Ah. No hypocrisy at all. Right.

[knapplc]

The fact that someone else may have cheated on their taxes is 100% irrelevant to the fact that Romney needs to release his taxes to the American public.

[krill]

You do understand the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance??

Most of us take whatever legal steps are allowed to lower the burden of taxation.

The principle is the same regardless of the size of the return.

 

I do, and Geitner did not intentionally evade paying his payroll tax...it was a mistake a lot of self employed people and expats make.

 

I also don't think there's reason to believe Romney has done anything illegal. It is a question of fairness. You say good for him for gaming the system to his benefit. I think it's hilarious that anyone could possibly think it's fair that someone like Romney, who's not working, or even using his money to "create jobs" through investments, pay no income / capital gains tax at all by using sheltering schemes, while a doctor working 40+ hours a week with a mountain of student loan debt pays 25-33% on most of their income. Then he (Romney) runs for President twice and acts like there's nothing to hide...it seems to me he's hiding most from people in his own party (upper middle class types) who would be irate if they saw his returns.

[Comish]

You do understand the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance??

Most of us take whatever legal steps are allowed to lower the burden of taxation.

The principle is the same regardless of the size of the return.

 

I do, and Geitner did not intentionally evade paying his payroll tax...it was a mistake a lot of self employed people and expats make.

 

I also don't think there's reason to believe Romney has done anything illegal. It is a question of fairness. You say good for him for gaming the system to his benefit. I think it's hilarious that anyone could possibly think it's fair that someone like Romney, who's not working, or even using his money to "create jobs" through investments, pay no income / capital gains tax at all by using sheltering schemes, while a doctor working 40+ hours a week with a mountain of student loan debt pays 25-33% on most of their income. Then he (Romney) runs for President twice and acts like there's nothing to hide...it seems to me he's hiding most from people in his own party (upper middle class types) who would be irate if they saw his returns.

Interesting take.

Words do mean something and when you say Romney is “gaming” the system, that seems to indicate a personal bias, unless you believe that anyone taking advantage of the tax code is also “gaming” the system. Most would say, I believe, that using the tax code to your advantage is being smart. (I know that if I can find a legal advantage on my taxes, I don’t prejudge it as “gaming”)

On the surface, your “fairness” argument is also interesting. Fairness is certainly a nebulous enough word that it can be applied in multiple instances in either a favorable or unfavorable light. (some would argue strenuously that it is a fairness issue when some choose to work while others “game” the system). One’s position on fairness will vary greatly based on one’s current circumstances.

It is very gracious of you to accept Geitner’s explanation of his tax “problem” on the face of his own explanation. I wonder if you would extend such courtesy to Romney and others based solely on their explanations?

Finally, I emphatically agree with your concern about those incurring debt while entering the medical profession. (although, a bit ironic since data seems to indicate Obamacare will drive many out of the profession). Regardless, as soon as Doctors become fully engaged in the system and start pulling in healthy salaries, they will immediately be transformed into the evil “rich” who are not paying their “fair” share.

That's the inherent flaw in any "fairness" argument.

[carlfense]

(although, a bit ironic since data seems to indicate Obamacare will drive many out of the profession).

Rest easy, Comish. Doctors won't be shuttering their offices.

 

Regarding doctors and taxes . . . good luck finding many doctors paying a tax rate near Romney's 2010 rate. Almost every doctor in the US will pay much more than 14%. Heck . . . a majority probably pay double that percentage. Do you think that is a problem?

[Comish]

(although, a bit ironic since data seems to indicate Obamacare will drive many out of the profession).

Rest easy, Comish. Doctors won't be shuttering their offices.

 

Regarding doctors and taxes . . . good luck finding many doctors paying a tax rate near Romney's 2010 rate. Almost every doctor in the US will pay much more than 14%. Heck . . . a majority probably pay double that percentage. Do you think that is a problem?

Simple answer is that the tax code itself is the problem. I'd love a one sheet, no loopholes, no accountants needed (sorry H+R Block) form for everyone. Flat tax is worth another thread.

And, I wouldn't be too sure about your "shuttering offices" comment. I know a large and varied grouping of medical professionals and am somewhat alarmed about the number that really are considering getting out. Fed regs culminating in Obamacare being the reason they're considering it.

[carlfense]

And, I wouldn't be too sure about your "shuttering offices" comment. I know a large and varied grouping of medical professionals and am somewhat alarmed about the number that really are considering getting out. Fed regs culminating in Obamacare being the reason they're considering it.

Meh. Medical professionals seems a little broad. Are you talking physicians? I know a lot of physicians. Approximately half of them complain about Obamacare. Exactly zero have said that they will leave the profession.

 

Also . . . I'm guessing that you're referencing this poll that made the rounds. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

[Comish]

And, I wouldn't be too sure about your "shuttering offices" comment. I know a large and varied grouping of medical professionals and am somewhat alarmed about the number that really are considering getting out. Fed regs culminating in Obamacare being the reason they're considering it.

Meh. Medical professionals seems a little broad. Are you talking physicians? I know a lot of physicians. Approximately half of them complain about Obamacare. Exactly zero have said that they will leave the profession.

 

Also . . . I'm guessing that you're referencing this poll that made the rounds. http://www.politifac...vey-finding-83/

No, I had never heard of that poll your citing. Obviously biased.

I'm talking physicians I personally know: socially and professionally.......some talking about getting out and some talking about limiting new patients on medicare because of government reimbursement rates.