carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Did you watch the speech? I didn't watch it but I read the transcript. Breathtaking dishonesty. Even by political standards. Or just wait for some hate-mongering liberal journalist to spew out your opposition to it? You just demonstrated the problem with the modern right more perfectly than I could describe it. Thank you. If lies are (rightfully!) pointed out it must be because it's from a hate-mongering liberal journalist. Objective reality doesn't exist. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I always find it laughable when liberals claim that Fox News is all lies and then never say anything about MSNBC. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Did you watch the speech? I didn't watch it but I read the transcript. Breathtaking dishonesty. Even by political standards. Or just wait for some hate-mongering liberal journalist to spew out your opposition to it? You just demonstrated the problem with the modern right more perfectly than I could describe it. Thank you. If lies are (rightfully!) pointed out it must be because it's from a hate-mongering liberal journalist. Objective reality doesn't exist. Care to elaborate? Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Did you watch the speech? I didn't watch it but I read the transcript. Breathtaking dishonesty. Even by political standards. Or just wait for some hate-mongering liberal journalist to spew out your opposition to it? You just demonstrated the problem with the modern right more perfectly than I could describe it. Thank you. If lies are (rightfully!) pointed out it must be because it's from a hate-mongering liberal journalist. Objective reality doesn't exist. Care to elaborate? Sure. Which part? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Breathtaking dishonesty. Even by political standards. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Here's the most comprehensive breakdown that I've found. Complete with source material if you'd like to check them out yourself. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/30/the-true-the-false-and-the-misleading-grading-paul-ryans-convention-speech/ Link to comment
Comish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Did you watch the speech? I didn't watch it but I read the transcript. Breathtaking dishonesty. Even by political standards. Or just wait for some hate-mongering liberal journalist to spew out your opposition to it? You just demonstrated the problem with the modern right more perfectly than I could describe it. Thank you. If lies are (rightfully!) pointed out it must be because it's from a hate-mongering liberal journalist. Objective reality doesn't exist. Incredible. Your fact checker calls it lies. A fact checker checks the fact checker and comes to a different conclusion. Ergo, in the wonderful world of Carl, only his fact checker reigns supreme. Classic. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 A fact checker checks the fact checker and comes to a different conclusion. Ergo, in the wonderful world of Carl, only his fact checker reigns supreme. Classic. I can't look at your fact checker because you just copied and pasted text (in violation of board rules, you should probably edit that) without a link. Post the link and I'll gladly take a look at it. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 A fact checker checks the fact checker and comes to a different conclusion. Ergo, in the wonderful world of Carl, only his fact checker reigns supreme. Classic. I can't look at your fact checker because you just copied and pasted text (in violation of board rules, you should probably edit that) without a link. Post the link and I'll gladly take a look at it. Sorry, didn't mean to violate any rules. Was in a bit of a rush to get to some things and while reading, just copied and pasted. Consider me properly chastised.!! Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sorry, didn't mean to violate any rules. Was in a bit of a rush to get to some things and while reading, just copied and pasted. Consider me properly chastised.!! No chastisement intended. Just a heads up. I just don't tend to give much credence to something that I can't check out myself. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No Problem. Happy to accept responsibility. Try this. http://www.foxnews.c...ention-address/ Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No Problem. Happy to accept responsibility. Try this. http://www.foxnews.c...ention-address/ OK. From what I see at your link it addresses two parts of Ryan's speech: -the Janesville, OH plant closing -Simpson-Bowles It concludes that these are not "factually untrue." (Interesting phrase.) I'll agree with the Janesville, OH analysis. It doesn't quite fit the definition of a lie. It's extremely misleading . . . and he conspicuously chose to not mention that the plant closed before Obama took office . . . but he can toe that line without lying. The analysis of the Simpson-Bowles claim is false. Ryan said that the commission "came back [to Obama] with an urgent report . . ." They did not. Period. There was no final urgent report because Ryan himself voted against it. The closing paragraph does admit that it was "probably untrue" for Ryan to say that "Obama did nothing but dodge and demagogue the issue . . ." That's not "probably untrue." That is a lie. As the article says, Obama put forward his own plan and negotiated with Boehner. Call it what it is. It's a lie. What about the other lies? (Stimulus biggest expenditure, ACA increases taxes on millions of small businesses, stimulus was full of fraud, ACA was a government takeover, etc.) Well . . . we don't know. The author won't address them. I can't blame him . . . it's hard to make a liar look honest. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Here's the most comprehensive breakdown that I've found. Complete with source material if you'd like to check them out yourself. http://www.washingto...vention-speech/ GM Plant = Show me where Ryan said it happened under Obama's watch. All he said was that if the government comes in and supports the plant it will stay open. The government did....and it didn't stay open. Stimulus is largest one time expendature = It compares WWII and WWII wasn't a one time expendature. Affordable care act = It claims it isn't a tax on small businesses but then it claims that if you have over 50 employees you will be forced to offer health care per the government. If the company doesn't have health care, then this is a mandated expense from the government. What is that if it isn't a tax? Stimulus wasn't full of fraud that went as paybacks and cronyism = This is the biggest laughable one. Then entire GM government takeover of a private industry is a payback to unions who supported him in his campaign. The entire GM deal was a disaster and completely out of the constitutional powers of the federal government. All to help unions. Affordable care act = It IS a government take over of health care. Insurance companies are involved in it but, it is mandated by the government that everyone is required to have it or pay a fine (which is completely laughable and impossible for the government to inforce) The government tells health insurance companies how to run their businesses and it tells private industry that they are REQUIRED to purchase it. How is that not a government take over? The affordable Care Act bill is the biggest idiotic peace of crap legislation this country has ever been faced with and any President that pushed for it should in no way shape or form be allowed to have a second term. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No Problem. Happy to accept responsibility. Try this. http://www.foxnews.c...ention-address/ OK. From what I see at your link it addresses two parts of Ryan's speech: -the Janesville, OH plant closing -Simpson-Bowles It concludes that these are not "factually untrue." (Interesting phrase.) I'll agree with the Janesville, OH analysis. It doesn't quite fit the definition of a lie. It's extremely misleading . . . and he conspicuously chose to not mention that the plant closed before Obama took office . . . but he can toe that line without lying. The analysis of the Simpson-Bowles claim is false. Ryan said that the commission "came back [to Obama] with an urgent report . . ." They did not. Period. There was no final urgent report because Ryan himself voted against it. You are omitting Ryan's explanation for WHY he voted against it. He and Alice Rivlin HAD agreed, but the format that came back to them included tax hikes that he found unpalatable. The closing paragraph does admit that it was "probably untrue" for Ryan to say that "Obama did nothing but dodge and demagogue the issue . . ." That's not "probably untrue." That is a lie. As the article says, Obama put forward his own plan and negotiated with Boehner. Call it what it is. It's a lie. I'll give you that one. (I wish your ethical standards for ALL of the BO untruths were held to the same bar) What about the other lies? (Stimulus biggest expenditure, **Not a lie....ACA increases taxes on millions of small businesses,Not a lie. stimulus was full of fraud,Not a lie ACA was a government takeover,Not a lie. etc.) Well . . . we don't know. The author won't address them. I can't blame him . . . it's hard to make a liar look honest. Kind of a tough stretch for you to claim this was "even by political standards" an outrageous set of lies, when there is 1 statement that he shouldn't have made. But shrieking hyperbole is standard fare from the political left (not that I'm including YOU in that characterization you understand.... ) Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 GM Plant fact check. http://articles.cnn.com/2012-08-30/politics/politics_pol-fact-check-ryan-gm_1_gm-plant-president-obama-barack-obama/2 The only thing Ryan appears to have gotten technically wrong in Wednesday's version was saying that the plant didn't last another year. It did last another year -- more like 14 months -- if the Isuzu line and its 57 workers count. So, though Ryan might have been incorrect in the August 16 telling, he cleaned it up for Wednesday's convention. Obama said what Ryan said he said. But to fairly evaluate Obama's statement, at least two pieces of context -- missing from Ryan's account -- would be useful: First, that Obama wasn't telling this plant that he'd save it from a pending closure. He wasn't addressing a plant that he knew to be closing, because the closure announcement didn't come until four months after his speech. Second, although the plant's last bit of production stopped early in Obama's presidency and the plant remains closed, the closure was planned before Obama became president. Verdict: True, but incomplete. Link to comment
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