carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 GM Plant = Show me where Ryan said it happened under Obama's watch. All he said was that if the government comes in and supports the plant it will stay open. The government did....and it didn't stay open. Uh . . . http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/60553-paul-ryans-speech-in-3-words-dazzling-deceiving-distracting/page__view__findpost__p__994210 Stimulus is largest one time expendature = It compares WWII and WWII wasn't a one time expendature. Ah. WWII happened more than once? Affordable care act = It claims it isn't a tax on small businesses but then it claims that if you have over 50 employees you will be forced to offer health care per the government. If the company doesn't have health care, then this is a mandated expense from the government. What is that if it isn't a tax? If you're told to provide something . . . and then given money in the form of a tax credit to pay for it . . . how is that a tax? "Most small businesses, then, get a tax cut, and the number of small businesses facing tax increases is about five thousand, far under a million." Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Stimulus wasn't full of fraud that went as paybacks and cronyism = This is the biggest laughable one. Then entire GM government takeover of a private industry is a payback to unions who supported him in his campaign. The entire GM deal was a disaster and completely out of the constitutional powers of the federal government. All to help unions. You're aware that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Obama's stimulus plan) and the GM bailout aren't the same thing . . . right? Affordable care act = It IS a government take over of health care. Insurance companies are involved in it but, it is mandated by the government that everyone is required to have it or pay a fine (which is completely laughable and impossible for the government to inforce) The government tells health insurance companies how to run their businesses and it tells private industry that they are REQUIRED to purchase it. How is that not a government take over? You saying that it's a takeover doesn't make it so. If the government isn't running it . . . it isn't a takeover. Period. The affordable Care Act bill is the biggest idiotic peace of crap legislation this country has ever been faced with and any President that pushed for it should in no way shape or form be allowed to have a second term. Yeah! It's far worse than the Indian Removal Act, the Espionage Act, the Volstead Act, Executive Order #9066, etc. Tone down the rhetoric. It makes you look completely unfamiliar with US history. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You are omitting Ryan's explanation for WHY he voted against it. He and Alice Rivlin HAD agreed, but the format that came back to them included tax hikes that he found unpalatable. You're omitting that Ryan DID vote against it and therefore his claim that they took an urgent report to Obama is a lie. I'll give you that one. (I wish your ethical standards for ALL of the BO untruths were held to the same bar) Where have my ethical standards for Obama’s untruths fallen short of that bar? What about the other lies? (Stimulus biggest expenditure, **Not a lie....ACA increases taxes on millions of small businesses,Not a lie. stimulus was full of fraud,Not a lie ACA was a government takeover,Not a lie. etc.) Well . . . we don't know. The author won't address them. I can't blame him . . . it's hard to make a liar look honest. Show me. Saying “it’s not a lie” doesn’t cut it. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You are omitting Ryan's explanation for WHY he voted against it. He and Alice Rivlin HAD agreed, but the format that came back to them included tax hikes that he found unpalatable. You're omitting that Ryan DID vote against it and therefore his claim that they took an urgent report to Obama is a lie. I'll give you that one. (I wish your ethical standards for ALL of the BO untruths were held to the same bar) Where have my ethical standards for Obama’s untruths fallen short of that bar? What about the other lies? (Stimulus biggest expenditure, **Not a lie....ACA increases taxes on millions of small businesses,Not a lie. stimulus was full of fraud,Not a lie ACA was a government takeover,Not a lie. etc.) Well . . . we don't know. The author won't address them. I can't blame him . . . it's hard to make a liar look honest. Show me. Saying “it’s not a lie” doesn’t cut it. Asking me to disprove your assertion? Why don't you prove it WAS a lie? You are the one making the claim. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 GM Plant = Show me where Ryan said it happened under Obama's watch. All he said was that if the government comes in and supports the plant it will stay open. The government did....and it didn't stay open. Uh . . . http://www.huskerboa...post__p__994210 Stimulus is largest one time expendature = It compares WWII and WWII wasn't a one time expendature. Ah. WWII happened more than once? So, there was a one time bill that funded the entire WWII? Ok...got it. Affordable care act = It claims it isn't a tax on small businesses but then it claims that if you have over 50 employees you will be forced to offer health care per the government. If the company doesn't have health care, then this is a mandated expense from the government. What is that if it isn't a tax? If you're told to provide something . . . and then given money in the form of a tax credit to pay for it . . . how is that a tax? "Most small businesses, then, get a tax cut, and the number of small businesses facing tax increases is about five thousand, far under a million." Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 So, there was a one time bill that funded the entire WWII? Ok...got it. Here's your problem . . . Ryan didn't say "one time bill." Of course, if you change all of the words in his speech you can make it seem like he told no lies at all. 1 Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Asking me to disprove your assertion? Why don't you prove it WAS a lie? You are the one making the claim. I'm most definitely not asking you to disprove my assertion. Did you read the link? Check out the sources? Etc.? http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/60553-paul-ryans-speech-in-3-words-dazzling-deceiving-distracting/page__view__findpost__p__994177 Link to comment
Junior Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Here's the most comprehensive breakdown that I've found. Complete with source material if you'd like to check them out yourself. http://www.washingto...vention-speech/ GM Plant = Show me where Ryan said it happened under Obama's watch. All he said was that if the government comes in and supports the plant it will stay open. The government did....and it didn't stay open. If it was closed before the bailout... how could the bailout have saved it? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 So, there was a one time bill that funded the entire WWII? Ok...got it. Here's your problem . . . Ryan didn't say "one time bill." Of course, if you change all of the words in his speech you can make it seem like he told no lies at all. Sooo....one time expendature means what? Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sooo....one time expendature means what? A non-recurring expense. (expenditure) Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sooo....one time expendature means what? A non-recurring expense. (expenditure) But...WWII is made of of lots of "non-recurring expenses"....it's not just one. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sooo....one time expendature means what? A non-recurring expense. (expenditure) But...WWII is made of of lots of "non-recurring expenses"....it's not just one. . . . . and so is the stimulus bill. Where are you going with this BRB? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sooo....one time expendature means what? A non-recurring expense. (expenditure) But...WWII is made of of lots of "non-recurring expenses"....it's not just one. . . . . and so is the stimulus bill. Where are you going with this BRB? No it's not. There wasn't one bill that told Congress to spend Billions of dollars on WWII. It was a series of events that lead to that amount of money being spent. When we went to war with Japan, congress didn't say..."Hmmm...I want you to also spend all the money you are going to spend in Germany also". The Stimulus Bill was one act of congress that said they are going to spend XXXX amount of money. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sooo....one time expendature means what? A non-recurring expense. (expenditure) But...WWII is made of of lots of "non-recurring expenses"....it's not just one. . . . . and so is the stimulus bill. No it's not. Wrong. Here you go: http://www.gpo.gov/f...S-111hr1enr.pdf Peruse it at your leisure. Pages upon pages of non-recurring expenses. Even if you were right (and you aren't) that doesn't diminish Ryan's other lies. You can spin it however you would like but that was a profoundly dishonest speech from what appears to be a profoundly dishonest man. I guess if they can't win running against Obama's real record they can always change the facts. Certain people either won't notice or wont care. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Probably the same way you keep defending the most pathetic President in a very long time. Link to comment
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