Binders-deal or no deal

[Ziggy]

Its degrading to say that they were hired only because they are women. Regardless of what you think about Romney.

Who said that they were only hired because they were women? I think I specifically said that they were qualified. Romney said that he rejected a group of qualified men and asked that his staff find qualified women. Do you have a problem with that?

 

I read the transcript, he said they wanted to find female candidates to fill positions in his cabinet.

Yes, he did. He also said that he had a group of qualified male applicants and that he wanted his people to go find him some qualified women instead.

 

He never said he rejected the men, he said he wanted more "women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet." And you implied that he rejected a group of men and pushed on women for certain positions, meaning they were hired only because they were women.

[carlfense]

Because he wanted to fill the pool of candidates before he picked them. He didn't reject men and then go looking for women, he said that men had a far larger number of applicants than women. So he asked for more to be considered. Is that how it happened, IDK, but that is how it should and how he said it did.

Romney's words:

...I had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all the applicants seemed to be men.

And I — and I went to my staff, and I said, “How come all the people for these jobs are — are all men.” They said, “Well, these are the people that have the qualifications.” And I said, “Well, gosh, can’t we — can’t we find some — some women that are also qualified?”

And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet.

Cliff notes:

1. Romney's people assembled a pool of qualified all-male applicants.

2. Instead of selecting solely from the qualified men Romney (commendably, I might add) said that he wanted to find qualified women.

 

Your implication that the women he chose to fill positions were inferior to their male counterparts is degrading to the women who were hired.

What?! Where on earth did I imply that the women were inferior to their male counterparts?

[knapplc]

Isn't what he's doing basically affirmative action?

[Ziggy]

Affirmative action is hiring people based solely on minority status. Saying women were picked because they were women and not better candidates is affirmative action.

 

Carl your cliff notes are misleading a bit. You keep assuming the pool of people for positions wasn't just a list of people who applied for the jobs. So he saw the list of people noticed lots of men and few women, and told his people to find more female candidates for the jobs. Then they went through the lists and picked the people who filled the positions based on merits not on gender. In a perfect world, the peoples names and gender would never be on the application that is being considered.

 

You imply that the women who were picked for the jobs were picked because they were women, not because they were the best person for the job. If they are not the best person for the job they are then inferior to the person who should have gotten the job, male or female. You implied men were not looked at but tossed aside to look at women first.

[sd'sker]

Affirmative action is hiring people based solely on minority status. Saying women were picked because they were women and not better candidates is affirmative action.

i did not read the rest of your post because i had to respond to this: that is absolutely not what affirmative action is.

[tschu]

I've got binders full of women too but that's only because the spines of all my porno mags are in bad shape

[carlfense]

I must have missed the part of affirmative action that required that the hires be inferior.

[knapplc]

I've got binders full of women too but that's only because the spines of all my porno mags are in bad shape

 

tschu is an old man.

[Ziggy]

What is a porno mag you are talking about?

[tschu]

I've got binders full of women too but that's only because the spines of all my porno mags are in bad shape

 

tschu is an old man.

Haha, i wasn't even gonna make that post because I knew it wouldn't be believable. Related story, the internet is fantastic.

[knapplc]

There was no internet when I was your age. Man, you kids are spoiled.

 

And yes, I am an old man. Grampa Pineapple.

[Ziggy]

I shouldn't not have used solely, my mistake. The idea is correct, that the most qualified candidate may not always get the job.

 

"Affirmative action refers to policies that take factors including "race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or national origin"^[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group "in areas of employment, education, and business",^[2] usually justified as countering the effects of a history of discrimination."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

[knapplc]

I shouldn't not have used solely, my mistake. The idea is correct, that the most qualified candidate may not always get the job.

 

"Affirmative action refers to policies that take factors including "race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or national origin"^[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group "in areas of employment, education, and business",^[2] usually justified as countering the effects of a history of discrimination."

http://en.wikipedia....irmative_action

 

Affirmative Action is typically found in government hiring. But Affirmative Action flies in the face of Title VII, which states:

 

"It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -

 

(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; ..."

 

Not hiring a male and, instead, hiring a female, even though they are equally qualified, solely because of their respective genders, is illegal. But that is at the very heart of Affirmative Action.

 

It's a Left Hand/Right Hand thing.

[Ziggy]

I must have missed the part of affirmative action that required that the hires be inferior.

 

They are not required to be inferior, but sometimes the most qualified person is not given the job because of non job related information is taken into account. Second best, can still be amazing person, but they are inferior to the person above them. Picking the best person regardless of race or gender is not affirmative action. Your implying he never gave men a chance to compete against women, is the same as implying that those women were hired because of their gender not because they were the most qualified to do the job.

[carlfense]

I must have missed the part of affirmative action that required that the hires be inferior.

 

They are not required to be inferior, but sometimes the most qualified person is not given the job because of non job related information is taken into account. Second best, can still be amazing person, but they are inferior to the person above them. Picking the best person regardless of race or gender is not affirmative action. Your implying he never gave men a chance to compete against women, is the same as implying that those women were hired because of their gender not because they were the most qualified to do the job.

But I didn't say (and Mitt Romney didn't say) that the women that he hired were inferior. He said that he wanted qualified women applicants and was not satisfied with a pool comprised of only qualified men. That's a good thing.

 

It's not nearly as dissimilar from affirmative action as you seem to think. Mitt Romney wanted qualified women and he hired qualified women even though he only had qualified male applicants at the beginning of the process.