Junior Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 This topic takes me back to a conversation with conservatives being concerned that Muslims were attempting to institute Sharia law in the United States. Like Knapplc said, look at it from that perspective and determine if you think the guy's rights were violated. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I agree that the judge is way off base. But, I have a bit of a common sense dilemma; did he really violate this kids constitutional rights? To re-phrase it, if the kid is given the choice between this sentence or say ten years in jail, and he freely chose the church sentencing, then were his rights infringed? I sure think the judge acted unconstitutionally but I'm not sure we can say this kid was harmed by it. And if he wasn't harmed, then whose rights were infringed upon? It isn't right for sure but it does raise some interesting questions. Probably the best way to explain it is that the courts have ruled that when given a choice between an unconstitutional option and incarceration, the choice isn't "free" - it's deemed to be coericive. As such, he's forced by the government to undergo religious instruction and by definition his rights are violated. I agree that the judge is way off base. But, I have a bit of a common sense dilemma; did he really violate this kids constitutional rights? To re-phrase it, if the kid is given the choice between this sentence or say ten years in jail, and he freely chose the church sentencing, then were his rights infringed? I sure think the judge acted unconstitutionally but I'm not sure we can say this kid was harmed by it. And if he wasn't harmed, then whose rights were infringed upon? It isn't right for sure but it does raise some interesting questions. What if this was your kid, and the judge sentenced him to attend prayers at a mosque for ten years? Still think it's OK? I fully understand both of your points. I am in no way arguing that what the judge did was right. Personally I think (not knowing all the details of the case) that DUI manslaughter deserves a real sentence and not some ill advised opportunity to get your life turned around. My prior comments were made strictly from the point of view of the 17 year old and his parents. If it was me or my son, I would jump at the chance to be sentenced to virtually any Christian church type of thing (which I assumed this to be) rather than going to the big house (if that was in fact the other option). This surely is not and should not be the role of our government or any wayward judge but that is how I would view it were I on the receiving end of the sentence. Now, if it was per Knapp's hypothetical, prayers at a mosque with the gist being indoctrination into Islam, that would give me a little pause but, I would probably still feel that was a better option than serving hard time for a commensurate amount of time. Muslim prayers once per week for ten years or prison 24/7 for ten years? Yeah, I'd take the prayers. But, I do realize that should not be an option in our justice system. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What exactly is attending church going to do to improve his character? I know plenty of church-going Christians who are as crooked as the day is long. Hammerhead, this is a heartfelt reply to your comment. I'd like to propose that it's Christians themselves that perpetuated the idea that being "good" was the point. It's not the point, and it's not the true message of the Gospel that the bible outlines. Paul called himself the "chief of sinners." That's the idea - that man's righteousness is "as a filthy rag." Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. But again, just know that the idea that you have to be "good" to be a Christian is not the real message of the Gospel. It hurts my heart that mankind has twisted it to be otherwise. Sorry for the off-topic comments. Yes. Had a pastor in my old Lutheran church explain it like this; church is a hospital for sinners and not an ivory tower for Saints. But, all to often people want to assume that they are either better than everyone else because they attend church or are members of a certain religion or others assume that those who go to church think they are better. When the truth is that we're all sinners and we've all got our own particular problems. However, I do think regularly going to church offers an opportunity to maybe correct some of the deficiencies in our lives and refocus on what is important but, it sure doesn't guarantee it or make it impossible without going to church. 1 Link to comment
NUance Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Okay, I’m a little late to this party but here’s my two cents worth. I think the judge is doing what he thinks is a good thing. And maybe it is. Or maybe not. But the fact of the matter is, he doesn’t have the authority to sentence the kid to attend church. That said, I think the kid should just suck it up and go to church. If he challenges this he could well end up serving time in the pokey. And you can just guess why they call it the “pokey.” lol Link to comment
The Dude Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 You'd think the judge being batsh#t insane would be grounds for a retrial, or something. 1 Link to comment
Conga3 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 You'd think the judge being batsh#t insane would be grounds for a retrial, or something. This post reminded me of an old favorite : Nothing But Trouble Back when the bad movies we so bad they were good. Link to comment
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