Syria

[Junior]

It would be pretty hard for the dems to continue playing the "not George Bush" card if Obama goes it alone without a coalition of countries and the American people backing his actions.

Lying about WMDs vs. actual use of WMDs against citizens?

Ground invasion vs. stand off strikes?

 

Again . . . are you comparing this to Iraq?

 

Are you talking about Saddam's use of chemical weapons against the Kurds?

 

Are you talking about the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988? I wasn't aware W's war on Iraq started that long ago. For some reason, I thought it was 2003.

[HuskerLuke]

Are you talking about the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988? I wasn't aware W's war on Iraq started that long ago. For some reason, I thought it was 2003.

 

The US also went to war against Iraq in the wake of those chemical attacks, with those attacks being one of (but far from the only) justifications for war. Many of todays Democratic leaders who are currently pushing for war with Syria (John Kerry is front and center here) voted against intervention in the Persian Gulf War.

[Junior]

Are you talking about the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988? I wasn't aware W's war on Iraq started that long ago. For some reason, I thought it was 2003.

 

The US also went to war against Iraq in the wake of those chemical attacks, with those attacks being one of (but far from the only) justifications for war. Many of todays Democratic leaders who are currently pushing for war with Syria (John Kerry is front and center here) voted against intervention in the Persian Gulf War.

 

The US did not go to war against Iraq in 1990 because of those chemical weapons attacks. They went to war in 1990 because of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

[HuskerLuke]

The US did not go to war against Iraq in 1990 because of those chemical weapons attacks. They went to war in 1990 because of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

 

I said there were several factors, here they are:

 

Our role then: to deter future aggression. Our role is to help our friends in their own self-defense. And something else: to curb the proliferation of chemical, biological, ballistic missile and, above all, nuclear technologies.

 

-President George H.W. Bush, September 11, 1990, before Congress.

 

In any case, my main beef with what's going on now is that we're being sold a pitifully flimsy case for war by the same people that opposed a war with Iraq, a country which not only gassed its own people in far larger numbers than Syria, but attacked a U.S. ally.

[Junior]

The US did not go to war against Iraq in 1990 because of those chemical weapons attacks. They went to war in 1990 because of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

 

I said there were several factors, here they are:

 

Our role then: to deter future aggression. Our role is to help our friends in their own self-defense. And something else: to curb the proliferation of chemical, biological, ballistic missile and, above all, nuclear technologies.

 

-President George H.W. Bush, September 11, 1990, before Congress.

 

In any case, my main beef with what's going on now is that we're being sold a pitifully flimsy case for war by the same people that opposed a war with Iraq, a country which not only gassed its own people in far larger numbers than Syria, but attacked a U.S. ally.

 

A) Your own bolded part does not talk about past chemical weapons attacks, rather speaks of a future build up of the technology.

B) It's a far more substantial case for war than we were sold in 2003.

C) I agree, I have no desire to attack Syria, because we simply don't know who the "good guys" are.

[carlfense]

It would be pretty hard for the dems to continue playing the "not George Bush" card if Obama goes it alone without a coalition of countries and the American people backing his actions.

Lying about WMDs vs. actual use of WMDs against citizens?

Ground invasion vs. stand off strikes?

 

Again . . . are you comparing this to Iraq?

Are you talking about Saddam's use of chemical weapons against the Kurds?

. . . in 1988?

[carlfense]

It would be pretty hard for the dems to continue playing the "not George Bush" card if Obama goes it alone without a coalition of countries and the American people backing his actions.

Lying about WMDs vs. actual use of WMDs against citizens?

Ground invasion vs. stand off strikes?

 

Again . . . are you comparing this to Iraq?

 

Are you talking about Saddam's use of chemical weapons against the Kurds?

 

Are you talking about the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988? I wasn't aware W's war on Iraq started that long ago. For some reason, I thought it was 2003.

SAME THING! DOUBLE STANDARDS.

[carlfense]

In any case, my main beef with what's going on now is that we're being sold a pitifully flimsy case for war by the same people that opposed a war with Iraq, a country which not only gassed its own people in far larger numbers than Syria, but attacked a U.S. ally.

Are you conflating Iraq War v.1 with Iraq War v.2? If so, is it accidental or intentional?

[BigRedBuster]

Glad you are finally being able to see the light. Congratulations.

[carlfense]

Glad you are finally being able to see the light. Congratulations.

[HuskerLuke]

Are you conflating Iraq War v.1 with Iraq War v.2? If so, is it accidental or intentional?

 

No, I was still stuck on Iraq War 1.0 with the comment about attacking a US ally.

 

My thought on the second Iraq war is that it was basically the case of a hurting and angry America being too willing to use unreliable intelligence as an excuse to kick the ass of someone who had long been a thorn in our side. In other words, I think the Persian Gulf War was both justified and probably didn't go far enough (didn't remove Saddam), while the second Iraq War should never have been ordered....and I view the case for war with Syria as being an even weaker version of the case for round 2 with Iraq 10 years ago.

[knapplc]

I don't miss these conversations. I have much more fun talking with you all about football. I find myself agreeing with BRB, JJ & carlfense in the same threads all the time.

 

It's much more peaceful. I'm enjoying my hiatus from P&R probably more than all of you are.

[carlfense]

My thought on the second Iraq war is that it was basically the case of a hurting and angry America being too willing to use unreliable intelligence as an excuse to kick the ass of someone who had long been a thorn in our side. In other words, I think the Persian Gulf War was both justified and probably didn't go far enough (didn't remove Saddam) . . .

Eh. Would have been just as much of a quagmire in 1990 as it was after 2003 if we had removed Saddam. The strategy in 1990 was correct. Liberate Kuwait and seriously degrade Iraq's military capabilities without leaving the country in a civil war.

 

. . . while the second Iraq War should never have been ordered....and I view the case for war with Syria as being an even weaker version of the case for round 2 with Iraq 10 years ago.

I would (will?) agree if this escalates into an intervention in the civil war. If it's just a one time strike then I don't think that the two are remotely comparable.

[HuskerLuke]

I would (will?) agree if this escalates into an intervention in the civil war. If it's just a one time strike then I don't think that the two are remotely comparable.

 

I don't believe in best case scenarios with war. Consider the following:

 

What if American planes are shot down over Syria?

What if Syria attacks US warships off its coast or attacks Israel?

What if Assad weathers our strikes and shows our impotence to the world by gassing even more civilians?

What if Assad's regime implodes and some of his surviving chemical weapons fall into the hands of lunatic elements of the rebels?

 

There are a million opportunities for this to blow up on us, and I don't care to roll the dice, especially with no clearly established "good guys" in this war.

[Conga3]

Let's start a Syria Pool in this thread. We all think this is serious, but maybe we need to relax a bit. We've devolved into debating Iraq WMD...again.

 

If you pick the date Obama launches a missile in Syria's direction you win Board Moderator rights to the P & R sub-forum for as long as it takes for you to replace all Knapplc's posts with cute kitten pics. EDIT : Everyone has to +1 your pick.

 

If Obama backs down, we all win/lose (depending on your opinion).

 

---

 

I'm picking Oct 4th.