A diamond the size of a refrigerator

[Undone]

I tend to be as specific and intentional in what I say as possible, and thus I assume other people are doing the same even though it doesn't happen that often.

What doesn't happen very often? People aren't as specific as you are very often?

[zoogs]

I appreciate how specific you are being, Landlord, though I have to admit it was extremely confusing at first. I'll just summarize here:

 

Young-Earth Creationism and Old Earth Creationism are both incompatible with evolutionary theory, and are really the only two types of defined Creationism theory.

 

P.S. Creationism is a crock.

 

Salvation doesn't depend on our opinion on creation, thank God

 

All of which resonates with what a few of us have been saying in this thread - that there's no incompatibility between science and faith.

[The Dude]

My thoughts align with CNRed. Landlord, sometimes your finite definitions confuse the general opinions originally tendered. Sometimes maybe we can let generalities slide especially when they are in basic agreement with your own. Maybe it's just me but I haven't run into too many people who subscribe to the literal six day creation story or those who think humans rode on dinosaurs as is promoted at that creation musuem. I think we can leave the fringe exactly there- on the fringe.

What? I watched Jesus ride a triceratops past the Space Needle the day Washington legalized gay marriage.

 

Or maybe it was when they legalized weed? Either way, mind rape.

[strigori]

How about looking at it from a slightly different angle.

 

The primary reason religions exist is because of when they were formed. In ages where many people could not read, could not count past their number of fingers, and had no concept of science. This we take for granted would be magical and evil.

 

In order to explain things that people had no answer for they created gods to be the answer. Their continuation into today is as much tradition as anything else. Most people adhere to the religion of their parents.

 

If science had been in a place like it is now, I contend that most of the world's religions would never have formed. Because there are answers, even if not all of them are complete.

 

Try spinning the tales of 'miracles' today and see how many people would believe it. Hell, I have always found it interesting that gods stopped doing overt actions.

 

Tom Cruise disagrees with you.

I did say most. And a 'religion' that was invented by a guy who famously said that if you really wanted to be immortal, create a religion is clearly a farce. Nothing but a collection of a bunch of suckers.

 

Mormonism still falls into my viewpoint. It was founded in an era where reading was still very, very limited. And scientific knowledge was even more limited than that. 1st graders now take some things as a given that 200 years ago would be seen as lunacy.

 

 

 

But I wonder if you're leaving out a small detail: That you're presupposing a staunch form of materialism is 100% correct. Because if you are in fact doing that, then your point goes both ways.

I think that for the vast majority in the world today, we are a much more cynical species. The phrase 'video, or it didn't happen' exists for a reason.

 

Ask yourself, if someone came up to you and started talking about witnessing a 'miracle' like those depicted in the bible, is your first thought going to be acceptance, or that the guy talking was either tricked, or full of crap? I think for nearly anyone it will be the later.

[Undone]

I think that for the vast majority in the world today, we are a much more cynical species. The phrase 'video, or it didn't happen' exists for a reason.

 

Ask yourself, if someone came up to you and started talking about witnessing a 'miracle' like those depicted in the bible, is your first thought going to be acceptance, or that the guy talking was either tricked, or full of crap? I think for nearly anyone it will be the later.

Not much to argue with on that point, I suppose. And it's not likely that anyone here really wants to expand on the points that anyone on either side would come up with.

 

I think my point was relating more to your comment I had quoted talking about science having answers. You admitted that some of the answers are incomplete, which was reasonable (and entirely accurate). But the so-called "peer review" system currently in place in modern day science allows no room for any suggestions of intelligent design. Which is the infusion of a worldview that says that materialism is 100% correct with the science being done. This is problematic, whether anyone on the materialism side would like to admit it or not.

[True2tRA]

Give me a moment

Got to get this weight up off my chest

Don't feed me sorrow

Pain is a poison I digest

 

Find yourself another soul to hold

You think, you thought, I know

Off upon my journey I must go

To where the river flows

 

I'll give you answers

To the questions you have yet to ask

Silence is beauty

Words they only complicate the task

 

Make no more wishes

All of my patience has been spent

Gods of the season

Lead me to my next incident

[/center]

[True2tRA]

Pearls and swine bereft of me

Long and weary my road has been

I was lost in the cities

Alone in the hills

No sorrow or pitty

For leaving I feel

 

I am not your rolling wheels

I am a highway

I am not your carpet ride

I am the sky

 

Friends and liars

Don't wait for me

Cause I'll get on

All by myself

I put millions of miles

Under my heels

And still too close to you

I feel

 

I am not your rolling wheels

I am the highway

I am not your carpet ride

I am the sky

I am not your blowing wind

I am the lightning

I am not your autumn moon

I am the night

The night

 

I am not your rolling wheels

I am the highway

I am not your carpet ride

I am the sky

I am not your blowing wind

I am the lightining

I am not your autumn moon

I am the night

[Landlord]

I did say most. And a 'religion' that was invented by a guy who famously said that if you really wanted to be immortal, create a religion is clearly a farce. Nothing but a collection of a bunch of suckers.

 

Mormonism still falls into my viewpoint. It was founded in an era where reading was still very, very limited. And scientific knowledge was even more limited than that. 1st graders now take some things as a given that 200 years ago would be seen as lunacy.

 

 

 

 

 

This is called chronological snobbery. By this argument, things that were thought and believed in the past will always be inferior and elementary for no other reason than they had bad timing compared to the generation that is looking back at them.

 

Count me in the camp that thinks collectively we're becoming more and more idiotic and foolish as our supposed knowledge and understanding keep progressing.

[strigori]

I did say most. And a 'religion' that was invented by a guy who famously said that if you really wanted to be immortal, create a religion is clearly a farce. Nothing but a collection of a bunch of suckers.

 

Mormonism still falls into my viewpoint. It was founded in an era where reading was still very, very limited. And scientific knowledge was even more limited than that. 1st graders now take some things as a given that 200 years ago would be seen as lunacy.

 

 

 

 

 

This is called chronological snobbery. By this argument, things that were thought and believed in the past will always be inferior and elementary for no other reason than they had bad timing compared to the generation that is looking back at them.

 

Count me in the camp that thinks collectively we're becoming more and more idiotic and foolish as our supposed knowledge and understanding keep progressing.

Call it what you will but I would rather live in the world of today than that of any era past. And its not even a question. Time moves on and ideas need to evolve. Old ideas are inferior as they are proven wrong. Things like spontaneous generation, 'bleeding' as a part of medicine, and a whole host of other outdated thinking.

 

We are not more idiotic as a species than in the past, we are just more connected so more people know about it when someone makes an idiot of themselves. I will take computers, electricity, cars airplanes and all of the other aspects of our modern existence of that of living in some era past. And I really think if you were anything other than a white man you would not look so favorably upon the past.

 

You would be just as guilty as I am by calling Egyptian, Greek and Roman religions 'mythology' because your religion came after.

[Landlord]

I did say most. And a 'religion' that was invented by a guy who famously said that if you really wanted to be immortal, create a religion is clearly a farce. Nothing but a collection of a bunch of suckers.

 

Mormonism still falls into my viewpoint. It was founded in an era where reading was still very, very limited. And scientific knowledge was even more limited than that. 1st graders now take some things as a given that 200 years ago would be seen as lunacy.

 

 

 

 

 

This is called chronological snobbery. By this argument, things that were thought and believed in the past will always be inferior and elementary for no other reason than they had bad timing compared to the generation that is looking back at them.

 

Count me in the camp that thinks collectively we're becoming more and more idiotic and foolish as our supposed knowledge and understanding keep progressing.

Call it what you will but I would rather live in the world of today than that of any era past. And its not even a question. Time moves on and ideas need to evolve. Old ideas are inferior as they are proven wrong. Things like spontaneous generation, 'bleeding' as a part of medicine, and a whole host of other outdated thinking.

 

We are not more idiotic as a species than in the past, we are just more connected so more people know about it when someone makes an idiot of themselves. I will take computers, electricity, cars airplanes and all of the other aspects of our modern existence of that of living in some era past. And I really think if you were anything other than a white man you would not look so favorably upon the past.

 

You would be just as guilty as I am by calling Egyptian, Greek and Roman religions 'mythology' because your religion came after.

 

 

 

You really don't think you are more of an idiot than your predecessors? Hmmm....how many phone numbers do you know off the top of your head? How's your spelling, since nobody needs to know how to spell anymore. Do you think your ability to recall information mentally is just as good, even though you're conditioned to know that you can just find it using google once you forget? Do you pay just as much attention to where you're going and remembering where you are even after the rise of the GPS? Einstein actually had something to say on this too -

 

 

“I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots.”

[strigori]

Do i memorize phone numbers anymore? Not really. And many people never did anyway. And what exact things you are memorizing has little relevance, its all relative to what a person finds useful. And not the core of the subject at hand. We understand more now than at any point before in human history. Are there going to be lots of morons running around? Sure there was always the village idiot, only now that fool can get his voice heard by more than the drunks at the local tavern.

 

Literacy is as good or better now than any era in history. Best understanding of science, math and so on. And to get out in front of the next argument, comparing test scores across decades does nothing other than the students understanding of the relative information to that time not what is actually taught and known.

 

I do not buy arguments of 'its online, I don't need to remember anything.' Bogus. No different than having a book and not memorizing it because you can look it up again in the book. GPS is the modern map. Did people who had a map not remember where they were going? Do we cry that people don't know how to ride horses anymore now that cars exist?

 

And we have not even gotten into the progress that has been made in how people view and treat other groups of people. In the western world at least, we are at the best point in the history of mankind with equal rights.

[Undone]

I really love these threads, in all seriousness. They're a lot of fun.

 

And we have not even gotten into the progress that has been made in how people view and treat other groups of people. In the western world at least, we are at the best point in the history of mankind with equal rights.

That's an interesting point. It's also interesting to think of the bloodshed and strife that it took to get to that point. Ironic, in a way.

 

Then I also think of the way that the West has found new ways to exploit lesser developed countries for our own benefit in this current age. See: exploited/abused workers that produce the goods we buy. Not trying to start a political argument there, it just came to mind.

[strigori]

I really love these threads, in all seriousness. They're a lot of fun.

 

And we have not even gotten into the progress that has been made in how people view and treat other groups of people. In the western world at least, we are at the best point in the history of mankind with equal rights.

That's an interesting point. It's also interesting to think of the bloodshed and strife that it took to get to that point. Ironic, in a way.

 

Then I also think of the way that the West has found new ways to exploit lesser developed countries for our own benefit in this current age. See: exploited/abused workers that produce the goods we buy. Not trying to start a political argument there, it just came to mind.

As is often the case in human history, the biggest changes, especially social changes, usually go hand in hand with massive amounts of lives lost.

 

I think we could have a whole thread about the later comment. That is one hell of a complex thing by itself.

[Landlord]

And we have not even gotten into the progress that has been made in how people view and treat other groups of people. In the western world at least, we are at the best point in the history of mankind with equal rights.

 

 

This isn't true. There are more people in slavery across the world now than there ever have been at any time in human history, as best as can be known. Over 27 million people throughout the world are victims of slavery.

[zoogs]

There are also more people in the world than there has ever been at any time in human history. There are more than 6 billion people in the world today.