Wealth Inequality in America

[StPaulHusker]

Easier on who? Does this said owner take their chances that consumers will accept the increase, maybe lose a few customers? Or do they cut their livelihood in half?

"Easiest" as in least effect on the business itself. Unless you think that the owner would run his own business less effectively if he took home a smaller salary . . .

 

As a business owner myself, I am taking my chances with the price increase because chances are, my competition is in the same boat I am and will have to do the same thing.

I can understand the temptation to make others pay more rather than taking home less money yourself. It's classic "taker" behavior.

Or capitalism.

[BigRedBuster]

Ever since I was a kid in the 1970s, I have heard people claiming low income people can't make a living.

 

Since 1975, we have raised the minimum wage 14 times. It is now 3.6 times higher than it was then.

 

Every time this comes up, proponents of raising it claim the disparity between high income and low income is a problem. They claim we are losing our middle class...and on and on and on...

 

Well, we have now done it 14 times since I was paying attention and they claim all of these problems are getting worse.

 

Now, I'm not necessarily against raising the minimum wage. I'm fine with having a minimum level that most jobs have to pay. If we are going to use the argument that it is going to help solve these problems, then someone is going to have to show me some facts on this.

how can we show you facts before it has happened?

 

but the other side is that the raises in minimum wage have been *far* out gained by inflation. it minimum wage just kept up with inflation, i do not think this is an issue.

 

 

Before what happened? We have raised it 14 times and we still supposedly have a shrinking middle class and low income people who can't make ends meet.

 

Using this calculator:

 

Calculator

 

$2 (minimum wage in 1975) would now be $8.42. So, would raising it $1.17 per hour solve these problems? Are people now going to be able to make a living off of $8.42? Is the middle class going to stop shrinking?

[carlfense]

Easier on who? Does this said owner take their chances that consumers will accept the increase, maybe lose a few customers? Or do they cut their livelihood in half?

"Easiest" as in least effect on the business itself. Unless you think that the owner would run his own business less effectively if he took home a smaller salary . . .

 

As a business owner myself, I am taking my chances with the price increase because chances are, my competition is in the same boat I am and will have to do the same thing.

I can understand the temptation to make others pay more rather than taking home less money yourself. It's classic "taker" behavior.

Or capitalism.

Hence the emoticon . . .

[carlfense]

$2 (minimum wage in 1975) would now be $8.42. So, would raising it $1.17 per hour solve these problems? Are people now going to be able to make a living off of $8.42? Is the middle class going to stop shrinking?

Solve them? No. Reduce them? Hopefully.

[sd'sker]

Ever since I was a kid in the 1970s, I have heard people claiming low income people can't make a living.

 

Since 1975, we have raised the minimum wage 14 times. It is now 3.6 times higher than it was then.

 

Every time this comes up, proponents of raising it claim the disparity between high income and low income is a problem. They claim we are losing our middle class...and on and on and on...

 

Well, we have now done it 14 times since I was paying attention and they claim all of these problems are getting worse.

 

Now, I'm not necessarily against raising the minimum wage. I'm fine with having a minimum level that most jobs have to pay. If we are going to use the argument that it is going to help solve these problems, then someone is going to have to show me some facts on this.

how can we show you facts before it has happened?

 

but the other side is that the raises in minimum wage have been *far* out gained by inflation. it minimum wage just kept up with inflation, i do not think this is an issue.

 

 

Before what happened? We have raised it 14 times and we still supposedly have a shrinking middle class and low income people who can't make ends meet.

 

Using this calculator:

 

Calculator

 

$2 (minimum wage in 1975) would now be $8.42. So, would raising it $1.17 per hour solve these problems? Are people now going to be able to make a living off of $8.42? Is the middle class going to stop shrinking?

it is funny how raising the minimum wage has to solve all these problems, otherwise it is a bad idea. minimum wage should be raised because it has been effectively been decreasing since the '60s-'70s. that is the only reason i need.

[BigRedBuster]

I didn't say I was against raising the minimum wage. I'm fine raising it periodically to keep up with inflation. My point is, the argument around it never ends and the problems never get solved. Thus, leads me to believe that one doesn't have an affect on the other.

 

I would love a world where everyone who wants to can have a job where they can earn enough to live comfortably.

 

But, I always have issues when someone makes arguments for a change when their reasons for the change won't be solved by the change.

[HSKR]

I'm sure the "study" would come out just like that. About the same as all the positive Obamacare predictions did. Come back and share when you can actually find some facts instead of hopes and dreams.

i am not seeing any studies disproving it or saying the the recent raises in the minimum wage has hurt the economy.

Of course that begs the question if it really would be that great then why wouldn't businesses simply do it themselves without the law requiring it? Don't any Liberals own businesses and set the example themselves? Since we know it's all the evil Republicans fault.

there is a lot of projection here. but who says business always operate in their best interests? or that they ever demonstrate foresight?

Oh and once again $15 billion into the economy is nothing compared to what we need.

oh the nirvana fallacy. if it does not fix everything, why let it help anything. meanwhile, the politicians were debating cutting funding to pbs.

 

So now you are saying there aren't any studies that showed the recent raises hurt the economy yet you can't do the same thing to show they helped? and at the same time we are supposed to believe a study that projects another will help?

 

Not only does it not fix everything, it doesn't fix anything. There is nothing wrong with raising the minimum wage, but if you went from $7 to $12, jobs would be lost, period. There are a lot of low end manufacturing jobs even here in Nebraska that pay in that range. Do you really need more incentive to move jobs to Mexico? I just don't see how pulling some out of poverty is good when at the same time we would be sending more to the unemployment line.

[knapplc]

Not only does it not fix everything, it doesn't fix anything. There is nothing wrong with raising the minimum wage, but if you went from $7 to $12, jobs would be lost, period. There are a lot of low end manufacturing jobs even here in Nebraska that pay in that range. Do you really need more incentive to move jobs to Mexico? I just don't see how pulling some out of poverty is good when at the same time we would be sending more to the unemployment line.

 

While a "poverty class" is likely inevitable, the smaller that class is the better for everyone. What is the best way to reduce the number of people living at or below the poverty line?

[Junior]

Ever since I was a kid in the 1970s, I have heard people claiming low income people can't make a living.

 

Since 1975, we have raised the minimum wage 14 times. It is now 3.6 times higher than it was then.

 

Every time this comes up, proponents of raising it claim the disparity between high income and low income is a problem. They claim we are losing our middle class...and on and on and on...

 

Well, we have now done it 14 times since I was paying attention and they claim all of these problems are getting worse.

 

Now, I'm not necessarily against raising the minimum wage. I'm fine with having a minimum level that most jobs have to pay. If we are going to use the argument that it is going to help solve these problems, then someone is going to have to show me some facts on this.

how can we show you facts before it has happened?

 

but the other side is that the raises in minimum wage have been *far* out gained by inflation. it minimum wage just kept up with inflation, i do not think this is an issue.

 

 

Before what happened? We have raised it 14 times and we still supposedly have a shrinking middle class and low income people who can't make ends meet.

 

Using this calculator:

 

Calculator

 

$2 (minimum wage in 1975) would now be $8.42. So, would raising it $1.17 per hour solve these problems? Are people now going to be able to make a living off of $8.42? Is the middle class going to stop shrinking?

 

 

I can raise it another 14 times $0.01 each time for a total of $0.14, its still not keeping up with inflation. Don't look at the number of times raised, look at the amount the wage was raised.

[BigRedBuster]

Ever since I was a kid in the 1970s, I have heard people claiming low income people can't make a living.

 

Since 1975, we have raised the minimum wage 14 times. It is now 3.6 times higher than it was then.

 

Every time this comes up, proponents of raising it claim the disparity between high income and low income is a problem. They claim we are losing our middle class...and on and on and on...

 

Well, we have now done it 14 times since I was paying attention and they claim all of these problems are getting worse.

 

Now, I'm not necessarily against raising the minimum wage. I'm fine with having a minimum level that most jobs have to pay. If we are going to use the argument that it is going to help solve these problems, then someone is going to have to show me some facts on this.

how can we show you facts before it has happened?

 

but the other side is that the raises in minimum wage have been *far* out gained by inflation. it minimum wage just kept up with inflation, i do not think this is an issue.

 

 

Before what happened? We have raised it 14 times and we still supposedly have a shrinking middle class and low income people who can't make ends meet.

 

Using this calculator:

 

Calculator

 

$2 (minimum wage in 1975) would now be $8.42. So, would raising it $1.17 per hour solve these problems? Are people now going to be able to make a living off of $8.42? Is the middle class going to stop shrinking?

 

 

I can raise it another 14 times $0.01 each time for a total of $0.14, its still not keeping up with inflation. Don't look at the number of times raised, look at the amount the wage was raised.

 

 

That's why I found the calculator and plugged in 1975 minimum wage and calculated what it would be if adjusted for inflation.

[Junior]

That's why I found the calculator and plugged in 1975 minimum wage and calculated what it would be if adjusted for inflation.

 

Look back to earlier in the thread to the article sd'sker linked to. Use the calculator based on 1968 wages. See what today's minimum wage should be.

 

http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/64360-wealth-inequality-in-america/page__view__findpost__p__1181954

 

Making $2.15 an hour certainly does sound worse than today’s minimum wage, which federal law mandates must be at least $7.25 an hour. But what Blackburn didn’t realize is that she accidentally undermined her own argument, since the value of the dollar has changed immensely since her teenage years. Blackburn was born in 1952, so she likely took that retail job at some point between 1968 and 1970. And according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ inflation calculator, the $2.15 an hour Blackburn made then is worth somewhere between$12.72 and $14.18 an hour in today’s dollars, depending on which year she started.

At that time, the minimum wage was $1.60, equivalent to $10.56 in today’s terms. Today’s minimum wage is equivalent to just $1.10 an hour in 1968 dollars, meaning the teenage Blackburn managed to enter the workforce making almost double the wage she now says is keeping teenagers out of the workforce.

[BigRedBuster]

OK...what makes 1968 magical other than that's when Blackburn made minimum wage?

 

If I go all the way back to 1938 when the minimum wage was first put in place and adjust that to inflation, it comes out to $4.20.

[knapplc]

The national minimum wage was created by Congress under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) in 1938. Congress enacted this legislation under its Constitutional grant of authority to regulate interstate commerce. FLSA was a comprehensive federal scheme which provided for minimum wages, overtime pay, record keeping requirements, and child labor regulations. The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees. Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation's working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage. FLSA specifically provided for a minimum wage for full time and part time, public and private sector workers. Specifically, workers who are “engaged in” or “in the production of goods for” interstate (commerce between the states) and foreign commerce.

 

LINK

 

For the sake of this discussion it doesn't matter what 1975 or 1968 dollars are worth today. We need to figure out a "livable wage" and go from there.

[Junior]

OK...what makes 1968 magical other than that's when Blackburn made minimum wage?

 

If I go all the way back to 1938 when the minimum wage was first put in place and adjust that to inflation, it comes out to $4.20.

 

My point being, that modern minimum wage increases haven't kept up with inflation, which is illustrated nicely by the difference between 1968 and 1975 adjusted wages.

[BigRedBuster]

Knapplc....

 

Should every job be expected to offer a "livable wage"?