Wealth Inequality in America

[Junior]

Seems to sort of fit here;

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/10/22/357846415/more-cities-are-making-it-illegal-to-hand-out-food-to-the-homeless

 

 

According to a report released Monday by the National Coalition for the Homeless, 21 cities have passed measures aimed at restricting the people who feed the homeless since January 2013. In that same time, similar legislation was introduced in more than 10 cities. Combined, these measures represent a 47 percent increase in the number of cities that have passed or introduced legislation to restrict food sharing since the coalition last counted in 2010.

 

The latest city to crack down is Fort Lauderdale, Fla. According to the Sun Sentinel, the city's commissioners passed a measureearly Wednesday that will require feeding sites to be more than 500 feet away from each other, with only one allowed per city block. They'll also have to be at least 500 feet from residential properties.

[sd'sker]

[carlfense]

Second Gilded Age.

[Junior]

Second Gilded Age.

 

"What is the chief end of man? To get rich. In what way? Dishonestly if we can, honestly if we must." - Mark Twain

[tschu]

Milton Friedman really deserved that Nobel Prize

[notherplace93]

The thing that intrigues me is how honestly do we fix this? Anyone who still believes our economy relies on true free-market principles is just not looking. The capitalism we have in this country is crony capitalism. Just the other day, Mutual of Omaha won a 1.7 million dollar refund on an appeal of a property tax. Now i don't know the exact semantics or legal hurdles (which is what it all comes down to, the person with the best lawyer wins), but the problem we face is not that we have a certain party or certain group holding us down in power right now, its that power and money, as usually, have melded together at the top. I believe it was mentioned early in the thread regarding the candidate with the most money normally wins, and its very true. I was reading an article very recently that was revisiting the occupy wall street movement, and it talked about how over 50% of congress actually fits into the parameters of what we would call the "1%", and it was spread across both parties surprisingly evenly. It makes the actually dealing with the situation very difficult when the things that desperately need changed can only be changed by the people who have no incentive to change them

[Mavric]

The most recent Census Bureau data on household incomes document the importance of work. Census sorts the households by income quintile, and we will label those in the highest quintile as “rich,” and those in the lowest quintile as “poor.” The average household in the top 20 percent of income have an average of almost exactly two full-time workers. The average poor family (bottom 20 percent) has just 0.4 workers (see chart). This means on average, roughly for every hour worked by those in a poor household, those in a rich household work five hours. The idea that the rich are idle bondholders who play golf or go to the spa every day while the poor toil isn’t accurate.

The finding that six out 10 poor households have no one working at all is disturbing. Since they have no income from work, is it a surprise they are poor?

As for rich households, 75 percent have two or more workers. For the poor households, that percent is less than 5 percent.

Of course, hours worked doesn’t account for all or even most of the gap between rich and poor. But it does account for some of it. One of the more pernicious concepts is the notion of “dead-end jobs.” No, the surefire economic dead end is no job at all. There’s no climbing the economic ladder if you’re not even on the first rung.

Marriage is also a very good anti-poverty program. Married couples are almost five times more likely to be in the highest income quintile (33 percent) than in the lowest quintile (7 percent).

Without a father in the home, there is usually at most one full-time worker. Married couples are more economically successful for many reasons, not least of which is that they can and often do have two people working and bringing in a paycheck. So divorce and out-of-wedlock births have a lot to do with the income inequality. Budget expert Isabel Sawhill of the Brookings Institute found that if marriage rates were as high today as they were in 1970, about 20 percent of child poverty would be gone. What is worrisome is that a record 47 percent of Americans aged 25 to 34 have never married.

 

Washington Times

[cornographic]

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

[BigRedBuster]

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

Wow.... What propaganda piece did that come straight from.

 

So, nobody in America can ever be poor and work themselves into a very nice life or even being rich?

 

Owners of companies don't work?

 

If Unions were so great, they wouldn't be going down the shitter right now. They sank their own ship with how they managed themselves.

 

Congrats, I haven't read so much hatred about America for a long time.

[cornographic]

 

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

Wow.... What propaganda piece did that come straight from.

 

So, nobody in America can ever be poor and work themselves into a very nice life or even being rich?

 

Owners of companies don't work?

 

If Unions were so great, they wouldn't be going down the shitter right now. They sank their own ship with how they managed themselves.

 

Congrats, I haven't read so much hatred about America for a long time.

 

Ok then, well, I'm pretty sure you won't read this, or get it, but I'll put it out there anyway.

 

Facts don't = propaganda, or hate. Propaganda = propaganda, like, "Murica is the greatest country on earth", that's propaganda, and that's why they have to keep telling you that 100 times a day and people have to keep telling themselves and each other 1000s and 1000s of times, often with religious conviction. Of ocurse, they never say what Murica is greatest in, necessarily, and if someone happens to be courageous enough to point out that Murica isn't necessarily the greatest in some things, or or a number of things--like say, education or auto exports or mass transit(thinking high speed rail, here)--well, said person risks being verbally attacked, defamed, and/or ostracized. That is, propaganda discourages critical thinking. One could say that Murica "has the greatest geography", but what does that even mean? "Greatness" is rather subjective most of the time.

 

Murica is the 'greatest' @ oil consumption, so there's that. The Murican people, not so long ago, were the 'greatest' at bailing out Wall St banksters, with little more than a whimper. In fact, there could be another and even 'greater' opportunity for a repeat performance on that in the not too distant future.

 

Actually, unions started going down the shitter within about 10 yrs post FDR New Deal as the corporate elites and the politicians they have bought off waged an all out war on labor marked, in particular, by the the Taft Hartley, Right to Work(for less) Act, and it has continued to this day with the Koch Bros and their boy Scott Walker leading the onslaught. I will agree that many unions have become 'business unions' with corrupt management being bought off by the corporate masters, and that is why unions have to stay by and for the workers. Still, unions offer the working class the best pay/bene package possible and gov't workers are still by and large unionized. You do realize that the US military, economically speaking, is a socialist(paid for by the public) organization, right? I know Patriots have a hard time wrapping their brains around that. All advanced industries are also heavily subsidized by Uncle Sam, always have been. Socialize the costs/losses, privatize the profits, pay labor as little as possible--that's how it works.

 

NAFTA, GATT, and now this T(oilet)P(aper)Partnership deal, Fast Track and TISA(where TNCorporations can sue gov'ts) will most likely, have you, your sons and daughters working for less and less and the years go by. Of course, I see that you probably side with 'management', so am not at all surprised with your reply. I suggest becoming informed, but, of course, am not holding my breath on that.

 

Owners don't produce material things of value. They take what is produced and redistribute it for and profit and also invest. Contrast this with Labor--say, a farmer, or other tradesman--hopefully you can see the distinction thru your managerial haze.

 

Sure, occasionally a poor person can defy the odds and become rich in the USA or many countries, but that requires he/she become an owner/investor. Well, obviously, most people are not going to be the owners because it takes armies of wage slaves to support them and their habits. The idea that a person 'through hard work can be successful(rich', well, is a myth for the working class, obviously, you can work until you drop and you will by and large be paid the same wage. Only through ownership can you get rich. Think about it, the owner takes what is produced and sells it to many people, hence is getting paid by many people, therefore can get rich, whereas a wage slave only rents himself per hour to one person/organization, hence can never get rich. Warren Buffet wouldn't know real work if it hit him upside the head, he is an owner. Capitalism produces concentrated wealth on the one hand and relative poverty at the same time, it's built that way, obviously, really easy to understand(except by brain washed Muricans, of course).

 

Does wealth necessarily = 'greatness' or happiness? Often times, not, as far as I can tell.

 

 

Well, good luck getting(being) rich.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

Wow.... What propaganda piece did that come straight from.

 

So, nobody in America can ever be poor and work themselves into a very nice life or even being rich?

 

Owners of companies don't work?

 

If Unions were so great, they wouldn't be going down the shitter right now. They sank their own ship with how they managed themselves.

 

Congrats, I haven't read so much hatred about America for a long time.

 

Facts don't = propaganda, or hate.

 

Actually, unions started going down the shitter within about 10 yrs post FDR New Deal as the corporate elites and the politicians they have bought off waged an all out war on labor marked, in particular, by the the Taft Hartley, Right to Work(for less) Act, and it has continued to this day with the Koch Bros and their boy Scott Walker leading the onslaught. I will agree that many unions have become 'business unions' with corrupt management being bought off by the corporate masters, and that is why unions have to stay by and for the workers. Still, unions offer the working class the best pay/bene package possible. You do realize that the US military, economically speaking, is a socialist(paid for by the public) organization, right? I know Patriots have a hard time wrapping their brains around that. All advanced industries are also heavily subsidized by Uncle Sam, always have been. Socialize the costs/losses, privatize the profits, pay labor as little as possible--that's how it works.

 

NAFTA and now this T(oilet)P(aper)Partnership deal, Fast Track and TISA(where TNCorporations can sue gov'ts) will have you, your sons and daughters working for less and less and the years go by. Of course, I see that you side with 'management', so am not at all surprised with your reply. I suggest becoming informed, but, of course, am not holding my breath on that.

 

Owners don't produce material things of value. They take what is produced and redistribute it for and profit and also invest. Contrast this with Labor--say, a farmer, or other tradesman--hopefully you can see the distinction thru your managerial haze.

 

Sure, a poor person can become rich in the USA or many countires, but that requires he/she become an owner/investor. Well, obviously, most people are not going to be the owners because it takes armies of wage slaves to support them and their habits. The idea that a person 'through hard work can be successful(rich', well, is a myth for the working class, obviously, you can work until you drop and you will by and large be paid the same wage. Only through ownership can you get rich. Think about it, the owner takes what is produced and sells it to many people, hence is getting paid by many people, therefore can get rich, whereas a wage slave only rents himself per hour to one person/organization, hence can never get rich. Warren Buffet wouldn't know real work if it hit him upside the head, he is an owner. Capitalism produces concentrated wealth on the one hand and relative poverty at the same time, it's built that way, obviously, really easy to understand(except by brain washed Muricans, of course).

 

 

Well, good luck getting rich.

 

Unions have drastically went in the shitter the last 10 years due to the fact that workers have actually realized they were part of the reason they were losing their jobs.

 

Right to work laws are a very good law and I am very glad I live in a state that has them.

 

Owners don't produce anything? Who do you think started the company, put their life savings on the line and sign for loans etc, (risking their own property) to create and continue building the company that workers work for? Who do you think negotiates deals with customers, finances, raw material suppliers so that workers have something to do?

 

I know many many people who have started with relatively little and built a very good life here and yes...many of them have become fairly wealthy. To say you can't is just flat out wrong and pandering to the liberal socialist side of politics.

 

There isn't one society in the history of the world that didn't have rich people and poor people. To say an economic system is bad because there is rich people and poor people at the same time is just plain baffling. Even the most communistic societies in Russia, China...etc. had a rich class that had way more than the poor of the country. The American indian tribes that were probably considered pretty socialist had "rich" people that succeeded in the tribe and moved up and other people who didn't have squat because they didn't work within the tribes system of existing.

 

Are there issues that need to be addressed in our economy? Sure, I'm not naive enough claim there isn't. But, the USA continues to be one of the strongest and most equal societies on the planet. Do we have poor people? Sure, but on average, our poor people have it better than almost anywhere else. Do they suffer? Sure, I'm not saying they don't. But, to act like our society is this horrible/evil capitalistic society bla bla bla is literally doing nothing more than reiterating propaganda from anti capitalistic groups.

 

 

And...PS....I know a LOT of people who have gotten rich being employees of corporations too.

[cornographic]

 

 

 

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

Wow.... What propaganda piece did that come straight from.

 

So, nobody in America can ever be poor and work themselves into a very nice life or even being rich?

 

Owners of companies don't work?

 

If Unions were so great, they wouldn't be going down the shitter right now. They sank their own ship with how they managed themselves.

 

Congrats, I haven't read so much hatred about America for a long time.

 

Facts don't = propaganda, or hate.

 

Actually, unions started going down the shitter within about 10 yrs post FDR New Deal as the corporate elites and the politicians they have bought off waged an all out war on labor marked, in particular, by the the Taft Hartley, Right to Work(for less) Act, and it has continued to this day with the Koch Bros and their boy Scott Walker leading the onslaught. I will agree that many unions have become 'business unions' with corrupt management being bought off by the corporate masters, and that is why unions have to stay by and for the workers. Still, unions offer the working class the best pay/bene package possible. You do realize that the US military, economically speaking, is a socialist(paid for by the public) organization, right? I know Patriots have a hard time wrapping their brains around that. All advanced industries are also heavily subsidized by Uncle Sam, always have been. Socialize the costs/losses, privatize the profits, pay labor as little as possible--that's how it works.

 

NAFTA and now this T(oilet)P(aper)Partnership deal, Fast Track and TISA(where TNCorporations can sue gov'ts) will have you, your sons and daughters working for less and less and the years go by. Of course, I see that you side with 'management', so am not at all surprised with your reply. I suggest becoming informed, but, of course, am not holding my breath on that.

 

Owners don't produce material things of value. They take what is produced and redistribute it for and profit and also invest. Contrast this with Labor--say, a farmer, or other tradesman--hopefully you can see the distinction thru your managerial haze.

 

Sure, a poor person can become rich in the USA or many countires, but that requires he/she become an owner/investor. Well, obviously, most people are not going to be the owners because it takes armies of wage slaves to support them and their habits. The idea that a person 'through hard work can be successful(rich', well, is a myth for the working class, obviously, you can work until you drop and you will by and large be paid the same wage. Only through ownership can you get rich. Think about it, the owner takes what is produced and sells it to many people, hence is getting paid by many people, therefore can get rich, whereas a wage slave only rents himself per hour to one person/organization, hence can never get rich. Warren Buffet wouldn't know real work if it hit him upside the head, he is an owner. Capitalism produces concentrated wealth on the one hand and relative poverty at the same time, it's built that way, obviously, really easy to understand(except by brain washed Muricans, of course).

 

 

Well, good luck getting rich.

 

Unions have drastically went in the shitter the last 10 years due to the fact that workers have actually realized they were part of the reason they were losing their jobs.

 

Right to work laws are a very good law and I am very glad I live in a state that has them.

 

Owners don't produce anything? Who do you think started the company, put their life savings on the line and sign for loans etc, (risking their own property) to create and continue building the company that workers work for? Who do you think negotiates deals with customers, finances, raw material suppliers so that workers have something to do?

 

I know many many people who have started with relatively little and built a very good life here and yes...many of them have become fairly wealthy. To say you can't is just flat out wrong and pandering to the liberal socialist side of politics.

 

There isn't one society in the history of the world that didn't have rich people and poor people. To say an economic system is bad because there is rich people and poor people at the same time is just plain baffling. Even the most communistic societies in Russia, China...etc. had a rich class that had way more than the poor of the country. The American indian tribes that were probably considered pretty socialist had "rich" people that succeeded in the tribe and moved up and other people who didn't have squat because they didn't work within the tribes system of existing.

 

Are there issues that need to be addressed in our economy? Sure, I'm not naive enough claim there isn't. But, the USA continues to be one of the strongest and most equal societies on the planet. Do we have poor people? Sure, but on average, our poor people have it better than almost anywhere else. Do they suffer? Sure, I'm not saying they don't. But, to act like our society is this horrible/evil capitalistic society bla bla bla is literally doing nothing more than reiterating propaganda from anti capitalistic groups.

 

 

And...PS....I know a LOT of people who have gotten rich being employees of corporations too.

 

Ok, good luck with your viewpoints.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

Wow.... What propaganda piece did that come straight from.

 

So, nobody in America can ever be poor and work themselves into a very nice life or even being rich?

 

Owners of companies don't work?

 

If Unions were so great, they wouldn't be going down the shitter right now. They sank their own ship with how they managed themselves.

 

Congrats, I haven't read so much hatred about America for a long time.

 

Facts don't = propaganda, or hate.

 

Actually, unions started going down the shitter within about 10 yrs post FDR New Deal as the corporate elites and the politicians they have bought off waged an all out war on labor marked, in particular, by the the Taft Hartley, Right to Work(for less) Act, and it has continued to this day with the Koch Bros and their boy Scott Walker leading the onslaught. I will agree that many unions have become 'business unions' with corrupt management being bought off by the corporate masters, and that is why unions have to stay by and for the workers. Still, unions offer the working class the best pay/bene package possible. You do realize that the US military, economically speaking, is a socialist(paid for by the public) organization, right? I know Patriots have a hard time wrapping their brains around that. All advanced industries are also heavily subsidized by Uncle Sam, always have been. Socialize the costs/losses, privatize the profits, pay labor as little as possible--that's how it works.

 

NAFTA and now this T(oilet)P(aper)Partnership deal, Fast Track and TISA(where TNCorporations can sue gov'ts) will have you, your sons and daughters working for less and less and the years go by. Of course, I see that you side with 'management', so am not at all surprised with your reply. I suggest becoming informed, but, of course, am not holding my breath on that.

 

Owners don't produce material things of value. They take what is produced and redistribute it for and profit and also invest. Contrast this with Labor--say, a farmer, or other tradesman--hopefully you can see the distinction thru your managerial haze.

 

Sure, a poor person can become rich in the USA or many countires, but that requires he/she become an owner/investor. Well, obviously, most people are not going to be the owners because it takes armies of wage slaves to support them and their habits. The idea that a person 'through hard work can be successful(rich', well, is a myth for the working class, obviously, you can work until you drop and you will by and large be paid the same wage. Only through ownership can you get rich. Think about it, the owner takes what is produced and sells it to many people, hence is getting paid by many people, therefore can get rich, whereas a wage slave only rents himself per hour to one person/organization, hence can never get rich. Warren Buffet wouldn't know real work if it hit him upside the head, he is an owner. Capitalism produces concentrated wealth on the one hand and relative poverty at the same time, it's built that way, obviously, really easy to understand(except by brain washed Muricans, of course).

 

 

Well, good luck getting rich.

 

Unions have drastically went in the shitter the last 10 years due to the fact that workers have actually realized they were part of the reason they were losing their jobs.

 

Right to work laws are a very good law and I am very glad I live in a state that has them.

 

Owners don't produce anything? Who do you think started the company, put their life savings on the line and sign for loans etc, (risking their own property) to create and continue building the company that workers work for? Who do you think negotiates deals with customers, finances, raw material suppliers so that workers have something to do?

 

I know many many people who have started with relatively little and built a very good life here and yes...many of them have become fairly wealthy. To say you can't is just flat out wrong and pandering to the liberal socialist side of politics.

 

There isn't one society in the history of the world that didn't have rich people and poor people. To say an economic system is bad because there is rich people and poor people at the same time is just plain baffling. Even the most communistic societies in Russia, China...etc. had a rich class that had way more than the poor of the country. The American indian tribes that were probably considered pretty socialist had "rich" people that succeeded in the tribe and moved up and other people who didn't have squat because they didn't work within the tribes system of existing.

 

Are there issues that need to be addressed in our economy? Sure, I'm not naive enough claim there isn't. But, the USA continues to be one of the strongest and most equal societies on the planet. Do we have poor people? Sure, but on average, our poor people have it better than almost anywhere else. Do they suffer? Sure, I'm not saying they don't. But, to act like our society is this horrible/evil capitalistic society bla bla bla is literally doing nothing more than reiterating propaganda from anti capitalistic groups.

 

 

And...PS....I know a LOT of people who have gotten rich being employees of corporations too.

 

Ok, good luck with your viewpoints.

 

Have a good day!

[cornographic]

 

 

 

 

 

In capitalism, you have the owner/investor CLASS and the working CLASS. Obviously, the system is designed to benefit the former and screw the latter(the producers), that's the whole point of the system. The expansion of global markets have made the owning CLASS insanely wealthy. So, I don't know why anyone is surprised, socialists have been complaining about the inequities of capitalism for at least a couple centuries now--there actually have been revolutions waged or attempted throughout the world(including America), sort of the point of unions and such which are so vehemently hated by the owning and managerial classes.

 

The solidification of the state/corporate apparatus is essentially fascism--as defined by Mussolini--and that's essentially what the TNCs are all about. The US has the thinnest veil of democracy left, but really it's a state/corporate oligarchy, plutocracy, whichever, and more and more fascistic(w/o the autocratic ruler). Corporations are top down dictatorships, by and large, generally in democratic, IOW, and when it comes to political/economic power, the public have become mostly spectators.

 

Of course, the massive propaganda machine in the US has most of the public believing in warm and fuzzy concepts like "equality" and "fairness" and the like, it's really quite breathtaking in its effectiveness when contrasted with the real world. It may be helpful to point out that profits are what the owners make for NOT working, and obviously a wage slave will never get rich no matter how much sweat and blood the system extracts. And that's why they call it the American "Dream", because you have tone asleep to believe it.

 

So, don't pretend you will ever accomplish more "equitable distribution of wealth" in the current system when it is designed to do the opposite.

Wow.... What propaganda piece did that come straight from.

 

So, nobody in America can ever be poor and work themselves into a very nice life or even being rich?

 

Owners of companies don't work?

 

If Unions were so great, they wouldn't be going down the shitter right now. They sank their own ship with how they managed themselves.

 

Congrats, I haven't read so much hatred about America for a long time.

 

Facts don't = propaganda, or hate.

 

Actually, unions started going down the shitter within about 10 yrs post FDR New Deal as the corporate elites and the politicians they have bought off waged an all out war on labor marked, in particular, by the the Taft Hartley, Right to Work(for less) Act, and it has continued to this day with the Koch Bros and their boy Scott Walker leading the onslaught. I will agree that many unions have become 'business unions' with corrupt management being bought off by the corporate masters, and that is why unions have to stay by and for the workers. Still, unions offer the working class the best pay/bene package possible. You do realize that the US military, economically speaking, is a socialist(paid for by the public) organization, right? I know Patriots have a hard time wrapping their brains around that. All advanced industries are also heavily subsidized by Uncle Sam, always have been. Socialize the costs/losses, privatize the profits, pay labor as little as possible--that's how it works.

 

NAFTA and now this T(oilet)P(aper)Partnership deal, Fast Track and TISA(where TNCorporations can sue gov'ts) will have you, your sons and daughters working for less and less and the years go by. Of course, I see that you side with 'management', so am not at all surprised with your reply. I suggest becoming informed, but, of course, am not holding my breath on that.

 

Owners don't produce material things of value. They take what is produced and redistribute it for and profit and also invest. Contrast this with Labor--say, a farmer, or other tradesman--hopefully you can see the distinction thru your managerial haze.

 

Sure, a poor person can become rich in the USA or many countires, but that requires he/she become an owner/investor. Well, obviously, most people are not going to be the owners because it takes armies of wage slaves to support them and their habits. The idea that a person 'through hard work can be successful(rich', well, is a myth for the working class, obviously, you can work until you drop and you will by and large be paid the same wage. Only through ownership can you get rich. Think about it, the owner takes what is produced and sells it to many people, hence is getting paid by many people, therefore can get rich, whereas a wage slave only rents himself per hour to one person/organization, hence can never get rich. Warren Buffet wouldn't know real work if it hit him upside the head, he is an owner. Capitalism produces concentrated wealth on the one hand and relative poverty at the same time, it's built that way, obviously, really easy to understand(except by brain washed Muricans, of course).

 

 

Well, good luck getting rich.

 

Unions have drastically went in the shitter the last 10 years due to the fact that workers have actually realized they were part of the reason they were losing their jobs.

 

Right to work laws are a very good law and I am very glad I live in a state that has them.

 

Owners don't produce anything? Who do you think started the company, put their life savings on the line and sign for loans etc, (risking their own property) to create and continue building the company that workers work for? Who do you think negotiates deals with customers, finances, raw material suppliers so that workers have something to do?

 

I know many many people who have started with relatively little and built a very good life here and yes...many of them have become fairly wealthy. To say you can't is just flat out wrong and pandering to the liberal socialist side of politics.

 

There isn't one society in the history of the world that didn't have rich people and poor people. To say an economic system is bad because there is rich people and poor people at the same time is just plain baffling. Even the most communistic societies in Russia, China...etc. had a rich class that had way more than the poor of the country. The American indian tribes that were probably considered pretty socialist had "rich" people that succeeded in the tribe and moved up and other people who didn't have squat because they didn't work within the tribes system of existing.

 

Are there issues that need to be addressed in our economy? Sure, I'm not naive enough claim there isn't. But, the USA continues to be one of the strongest and most equal societies on the planet. Do we have poor people? Sure, but on average, our poor people have it better than almost anywhere else. Do they suffer? Sure, I'm not saying they don't. But, to act like our society is this horrible/evil capitalistic society bla bla bla is literally doing nothing more than reiterating propaganda from anti capitalistic groups.

 

 

And...PS....I know a LOT of people who have gotten rich being employees of corporations too.

 

Ok, good luck with your viewpoints.

 

Have a good day!

 

I forgot to add, I'm sure if you took a poll of the relatively few remaining Native Americans they would certainly share your zeal for the 'wealth' that has been bestowed upon them by this 'great' country, albeit for the third world poverty most of them experience. The spirits of African slaves are applauding from the ethers as to the great wealth they experienced under this great system too, back in the day.

[BigRedBuster]

LOL....you act like what Europeans did to Native Americans is the norm for what the US economic system does to people. There is no excuse for what Europeans did to the Native Americans and bringing it up as though I would support that because I support capitalism is laughable at best.

 

What they did to Native Americans is inexcusable and completely ignorant. However, I will say this. Native Americans were doing just as bad of stuff between various tribes as we ever did to them. Read some time about Red Cloud and his early years growing up and becoming the warrior he is known to be. He was a brutal and ruthless man that had absolutely no problem slaughtering villages or groups of people for simply being of a different tribe and setting foot on land he claimed as his tribe's land.

 

I'm almost done reading this book now. It's a fantastic read about Native Americans before Europeans showed up and the history of the Indian wars.

 

Saying that, this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and the perceived evil of it.