Where does Carbon really come from - Global warming issue

[BigRedBuster]

All good ideas.

 

From this LINK, it appears to me that the biggest affect is in electricity production and transportation. Meaning, we use too much electricity and drive too much. It's hard to tell from the information on the link but it appears to me that the "electricity" category excludes industrial power.

 

So, literally, we as the population of this country, have a direct effect on this.

 

So, to go to your list:

 

recycle = that's good. But, some recycling actually burns more power. It saves other resources though so it's still a good thing.

 

Cloth diapers = Use more electricity cleaning them (again, this is domestic power and not industrial power to produce the diapers you aren't using).

 

Grocery bags = Not sure if that reduces the domestic power usage.

 

Vegetable garden = No effect on power usage. But, always a good sustainable thing to do. We have a very large garden and the health benefits make it worth while.

 

Rain barrel = Good idea...would help, I guess, if you are on your own well and reduces the usage of that well.

 

How are people willing to reduce the power they use and drive less?

[beanman]

If we are going to key on the US because we are such horrible people compared to the rest of the world.....

 

LINK

 

61% of our greenhouse gases come from either transportation or electricity generation.

 

So.....what are you willing to do to cut this down? It has been stated that we produce 3 times per capita the CO2 that China does. So....let's use that as a goal.

 

What are you willing to do in your life to cut down 2/3s of your driving and electricity useage?

 

Air conditioning is a major usage of electricity. Are you willing to go without that this summer?

 

I bet most of my driving is to and from kids activities. I guess we can cut those out and we would save that driving. Anyone willing to do that?

 

These are things that I'm sure the people living on $2 per day do without.

 

The government could make this easy. Go more nuclear. There are new safer reactor designs. Push electric cars for by providing tax breaks or otherwise. I know I'd be more than willing to purchase and drive an electric car to and from work and for dropping the kids off at school. It would have more than enough range for me. That's where 80% of my gas gets used. I don't expect to eliminate gas engines, but think of how much is wasted sitting in traffic for your commute. If people want to continue to push ethanol then push switchgrass. Of course, the problem is how do you pay for switching to Nuclear. Since our country is already broke, good luck.

 

Around the house, it's easy to switch to CFL or LED. LED is very costly currently but it will come down. TVs will continue to become more energy efficient. Even outboard motors for boating have a fraction of the emissions they used to.

 

I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on that is helping; the problem is it isn't helping at a fast enough rate.

[Junior]

All good ideas.

 

From this LINK, it appears to me that the biggest affect is in electricity production and transportation. Meaning, we use too much electricity and drive too much. It's hard to tell from the information on the link but it appears to me that the "electricity" category excludes industrial power.

 

So, literally, we as the population of this country, have a direct effect on this.

 

So, to go to your list:

 

recycle = that's good. But, some recycling actually burns more power. It saves other resources though so it's still a good thing.

 

Cloth diapers = Use more electricity cleaning them (again, this is domestic power and not industrial power to produce the diapers you aren't using).

 

Grocery bags = Not sure if that reduces the domestic power usage.

 

Vegetable garden = No effect on power usage. But, always a good sustainable thing to do. We have a very large garden and the health benefits make it worth while.

 

Rain barrel = Good idea...would help, I guess, if you are on your own well and reduces the usage of that well.

 

How are people willing to reduce the power they use and drive less?

 

Well, it's June 11, and we've yet to run our A/C... I drive as little as possible, I agree with Beanman, they government should be giving tax breaks on electric cars. The problem is Congress is A) in the pocket of the oil companies and B) has buried their head so far in the sand on global warming that they can see the Great Wall of China.

 

There is more to combating climate change and environmental concerns than domestic power usage, though. Water is a big issue, buildup in landfills, etc. I'd be curious, though, to see stats on me running my washing machine twice more a week to clean diapers (that are hung on a clothesline to dry) versus the energy that goes into making disposables (not to mention the cost to deliver the disposables to the store, for me to go purchase the disposables form the store, and the chemical waste associated with their production). I'm not sure if you want to argue that disposables are likely better for net energy consumption, and while I don't have that data at hand (and I doubt anyone does), I don't see how it could be possible.

 

Grocery bags? Well, what are plastic bags made from? Fossil fuels. Again, just like the cloth diapers, there is an initial expenditure of energy, but it lowers the overall energy use in that I'm not continually requiring the production of them. So it lowers industrial energy use. Can you imagine if everyone stopped using plastic bags? Man to all the people bitching about gas prices being high... here's a direct way you can combat this. It's crazy, drive to the grocery store, use a plastic bag to bring your groceries home, throw the bag in the garbage to go in a landfill, bitch about fuel costs being too high.

 

The vegetable garden effects how often I go to the grocery store, which lowers energy costs me going to the store, as well as the costs of delivery of food to the grocery store.

[sd'sker]

All good ideas.

 

From this LINK, it appears to me that the biggest affect is in electricity production and transportation. Meaning, we use too much electricity and drive too much. It's hard to tell from the information on the link but it appears to me that the "electricity" category excludes industrial power.

 

So, literally, we as the population of this country, have a direct effect on this.

 

So, to go to your list:

 

recycle = that's good. But, some recycling actually burns more power. It saves other resources though so it's still a good thing.

 

Cloth diapers = Use more electricity cleaning them (again, this is domestic power and not industrial power to produce the diapers you aren't using).

 

Grocery bags = Not sure if that reduces the domestic power usage.

 

Vegetable garden = No effect on power usage. But, always a good sustainable thing to do. We have a very large garden and the health benefits make it worth while.

 

Rain barrel = Good idea...would help, I guess, if you are on your own well and reduces the usage of that well.

 

How are people willing to reduce the power they use and drive less?

what about the cost of shipping clothe diapers, vegetables, and plastic bags?

[BigRedBuster]

All good things that I think people should be doing.

 

My point is, I really wonder if any of that really gets us anywhere close to reducing our CO2 production per capita by 2/3. I am guessing not.

 

Now, the nuclear power may help get there. But, I suspect that if we plan on getting anywhere close to the per capita output of a country like China, major lifestyle changes are going to have to made by almost everyone in this country.

 

I really don't think people understand what that would entail. The fact is, we are a much more developed country than they are. Our poor people consume a lot more than their poor people and they have a lot more poor people.

 

Meanwhile, their total output of CO2 is much higher than ours. The earth really doesn't care if that total tons of CO2 comes from 3 million people or 10 million people.

 

I'm trying to find statistics on the Internet and haven't found exactly what I want. Their pollution mainly comes from their industries that are not highly regulated for environmental concerns. I would like to know what percentage of that production is consumed by Americans. I'm assuming we are their largest group of customers. We have the ability to put huge amounts of pressure on them to change their industry to meet our environmental standards.

 

There is always room for improvement here in the US. I won't deny that and I am all for all efforts here in the US to clean ourselves up. However, we have the ability to dictate fixing large industrial environmental disasters around the world. The problem is, Americans are addicted to cheap crap. When the rubber meets the road, they really don't care if the product is produced in a plant polluting the planet as long as it's not in their back yard.

[icedavis]

All good ideas.

 

From this LINK, it appears to me that the biggest affect is in electricity production and transportation. Meaning, we use too much electricity and drive too much. It's hard to tell from the information on the link but it appears to me that the "electricity" category excludes industrial power.

 

So, literally, we as the population of this country, have a direct effect on this.

 

So, to go to your list:

 

recycle = that's good. But, some recycling actually burns more power. It saves other resources though so it's still a good thing.

 

Cloth diapers = Use more electricity cleaning them (again, this is domestic power and not industrial power to produce the diapers you aren't using).

 

Grocery bags = Not sure if that reduces the domestic power usage.

 

Vegetable garden = No effect on power usage. But, always a good sustainable thing to do. We have a very large garden and the health benefits make it worth while.

 

Rain barrel = Good idea...would help, I guess, if you are on your own well and reduces the usage of that well.

 

How are people willing to reduce the power they use and drive less?

 

Well, it's June 11, and we've yet to run our A/C... I drive as little as possible, I agree with Beanman, they government should be giving tax breaks on electric cars. The problem is Congress is A) in the pocket of the oil companies and B) has buried their head so far in the sand on global warming that they can see the Great Wall of China.

 

 

Yeah but what a view! ::rimshot::

 

Being in MPLS, my greatest contribution to date will be my move into the city-ish to cut my commute from 35-40 min avg to about 7 minutes and a new hybrid ford fusion purchase within the next year or two (depends on how long my current car hangs on). edit: Although, my move is more to alleviate most of my anxiety issues, still helps.

 

Up here it seems more and more that people aren't even moving to the suburbs and commuting. They are moving to the towns 15-20 minutes outside the suburbs and commuting. Two southwest MPLS metro highways are getting more and more brutal with traffic increasing. One hwy is so bad it has been rated as one of the US' worst commutes/bottlenecks. Having to make a trip through that area daily, I can vouch. Yuck. edit: Think of the impact changing that could have. That would take a lot of convincing American's that we don't need a 14 bedroom house for our 1 kid and therefore don't need to commute an hour (one way) to work though.

[BigRedBuster]

What do we do with Nuclear waste? I remember a time when all the environmentalists said that was going to kill us.

[BigRedBuster]

Think of the impact changing that could have. That would take a lot of convincing American's that we don't need a 14 bedroom house for our 1 kid and therefore don't need to commute an hour (one way) to work though.

 

Now your starting to talk about the level of change it would take to get to the above mentioned per capita goal. Who is willing to do that?

[Ziggy]

I would wager in the next 10 years, that solar power will become cheap enough to become a real answer to our current energy issues. That and battery technology to help improve and modernize our current electrical grid would help reduced wasted energy production. Combine that with continuing advancements into alternative fuels for cars and we could easily reduce fossil fuel use by 50% in 20 years.

[HSKR]

LINK

 

At any level of development, human impact on the environment is a function of population size, per capita consumption and the environmental damage caused by the technology used to produce what is consumed. People in developed countries have the greatest impact on the global environment. The 20 per cent of the world’s people living in the highest income countries are responsible for 86 per cent of total private consumption compared with the poorest 20 per cent, who account for a mere 1.3 per cent. The richest fifth account for 53 per cent of carbon dioxide emissions, the poorest fifth, 3 per cent. A child born in the industrial world adds more to consumption and pollution levels in one lifetime than do 30-50 children born in developing countries. As living standards rise in developing countries, the environmental consequences of population growth will be amplified with ever-increasing numbers of people aspiring, justifiably, to "live better." Rather than assign blame in the debate over environmental challenges, both current and new consumers need to realize and address the consequences of their levels of consumption.

 

How are you willing to commit to consuming less?

 

Well, we recycle as much as possible, use cloth diapers for our child, have canvas grocery bags and reusable produce bags, have a vegetable garden where we grow a fair bit of our own food, and a rain barrel to collect water from the gutters for watering plants. The very basics that everyone should be doing, really.

 

 

FAIL! What are rain barrels made from? Fossil fuels unless you you have a wooden one then you are a tree murderer. There is probably a lifetime of plastic bags in a rain barrel. Oh and way to steal the water from your local wildlife habitat by hording it in rain barrels to keep for yourself.

[tschu]

Compare their environment around their industries and tell me they are doing a much better job than we are.

They are! It's up to you to decide how much is worth it. Much of their population lives off of small plot farming and agriculture, and yes, in poverty. Which has very little to no effect on the environment. So yes, I am telling you that this is much better for the environment that what the United States is doing.

 

We also drive cars that are much larger and less fuel efficient than the rest of the world; we use less scooters, bikes, and small vehicles as well. Doesn't matter how it's being done, fact of the matter is that they are less harsh on the environment than we are. I don't understand trying to blame China for the world's carbon emission problems at all.

 

Now if you want us to change in order to reduce emissions in the US, I don't advocate moving to the country, giving up all technology and living on subsistence farming, but basic things like selling your pointless Jeep and buying a car, planting a tree in the yard, recycling, and other small things go a long way if everyone does it. But we also need to focus on developing alternative fuels (and I don't mean ethanol) and means of electricity generation. We have all the emission-free electricity we could ever want if we figure out how to cost-effectively harness the sun and the wind. And as the oil runs out over the next 50 years and technology continues to advance, the alternatives will become cheaper than the fossil fuels.

[beanman]

Compare their environment around their industries and tell me they are doing a much better job than we are.

They are! It's up to you to decide how much is worth it. Much of their population lives off of small plot farming and agriculture, and yes, in poverty. Which has very little to no effect on the environment. So yes, I am telling you that this is much better for the environment that what the United States is doing.

 

We also drive cars that are much larger and less fuel efficient than the rest of the world; we use less scooters, bikes, and small vehicles as well. Doesn't matter how it's being done, fact of the matter is that they are less harsh on the environment than we are. I don't understand trying to blame China for the world's carbon emission problems at all.

 

Now if you want us to change in order to reduce emissions in the US, I don't advocate moving to the country, giving up all technology and living on subsistence farming, but basic things like selling your pointless Jeep Hummer and buying a car, planting a tree in the yard, recycling, and other small things go a long way if everyone does it. But we also need to focus on developing alternative fuels (and I don't mean ethanol) and means of electricity generation. We have all the emission-free electricity we could ever want if we figure out how to cost-effectively harness the sun and the wind. And as the oil runs out over the next 50 years and technology continues to advance, the alternatives will become cheaper than the fossil fuels.

 

Fixed it for you. People who drive Hummers can bite me. They have to have small weiners. There's no explanation otherwise as to why a person would want one of those.

[BigRedBuster]

Compare their environment around their industries and tell me they are doing a much better job than we are.

They are! It's up to you to decide how much is worth it. Much of their population lives off of small plot farming and agriculture, and yes, in poverty. Which has very little to no effect on the environment. So yes, I am telling you that this is much better for the environment that what the United States is doing.

 

We also drive cars that are much larger and less fuel efficient than the rest of the world; we use less scooters, bikes, and small vehicles as well. Doesn't matter how it's being done, fact of the matter is that they are less harsh on the environment than we are. I don't understand trying to blame China for the world's carbon emission problems at all.

 

Now if you want us to change in order to reduce emissions in the US, I don't advocate moving to the country, giving up all technology and living on subsistence farming, but basic things like selling your pointless Jeep and buying a car, planting a tree in the yard, recycling, and other small things go a long way if everyone does it. But we also need to focus on developing alternative fuels (and I don't mean ethanol) and means of electricity generation. We have all the emission-free electricity we could ever want if we figure out how to cost-effectively harness the sun and the wind. And as the oil runs out over the next 50 years and technology continues to advance, the alternatives will become cheaper than the fossil fuels.

 

 

Maybe it's a perception thing.

 

But, I fail to see how they are better for the environment.

 

LINK

 

Sure....their people living in poverty don't have a big effect on the environment. BUT, the country as a whole is a disaster. Their leaders even are starting to agree even though they really won't admit what is going on.

[Someone]

This is a great thread. Most of the key aspects of dishonesty are on display.

 

1. Cherry Pick'n Data

 

True or False: "released data showing that there has been no statistically significant stock market change for almost 12 years between April 1997 and April 2009."

 

2. False Context

 

If your Dr. told you five years ago to lose weight and as a result you went from 275 lbs to 270 lbs. and then you took a 4 day cruise, that cruise ship "in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control" your weight if you gained 4 lbs. on the trip.

 

"Of course you know about these evil calories that we are trying to suppress - it’s that vital energy unit that is required for us humans and all animal life.

 

I know, it's very disheartening to realize that all of the calorie savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of drinking bud light, getting diet coke with your Big Mac Extra Value Meal, trying sushi that one time, parking one row futher away from the office front door, cutting back at the Val's Buffett to either brownies or blondies but never both ...well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

 

3. Factual Errors

 

The fossil fuels emissions numbers are about 100 times bigger than even the maximum estimated volcanic CO2 fluxes.

 

4. "Deliberate Ignorance"

 

Abe Lincoln made it a crime to sell the army a bunch of rations that--while you might not be 100% sure that they are spoiled and not fit to eat--you have enough brains that it would be foolish for you to assume they where not spoiled. Deliberate Ignorance in posting false things to a message board isn't a crime, but just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean you should do it.

 

Did I stutter? Is there something you don't understand?

[Junior]

The basics of global warming, explained by Bill Nye.