Would Tommie Frazier make it today? Stewart Mandel answers this crucial question

[knapplc]

When I was a kid, my father and uncle -- both huge Nebraska fans -- used to to tell me about the great Tommie Frazier. As I got older, I looked up Tommie and learned that he was indeed great, but that he never made the NFL because he was a run-first quarterback in legendary coach Tom Osborne's option offense. Given the recent success of dual-threat quarterbacks such as Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson and RGIII, do you think Frazier would get drafted in the NFL if he were coming out of college today? If so, do you think Frazier could be successful?

-- Brian, Glastonbury, Conn.

 

First of all, Brian, thanks for making me feel really old by reinforcing that I probably have a whole generation of readers who only know of Tommie Frazier through stories and YouTube clips. Frazier, now 38, is barely older than I am. He was also unquestionably one of the most dominant players in college history. But the difference between him and the more modern guys you mentioned is that the latter group didn't play in purely triple-option offenses like Nebraska's. In fact, those more recent quarterbacks were excellent passers who finished first or second nationally in pass efficiency in their respective final seasons; it's conceivable they would have been drafted (though likely not as high) even if they weren't the least bit mobile.

 

Frazier, on the other hand, attempted just 163 passes his senior season. By comparison, 2012 Heisman winner Johnny Manziel racked up 434 attempts last year. It would be unfair to call Frazier a bad passer, as he did complete 56 percent of his throws during that 1995 season with a 17-to-4 touchdown-to-interception ratio. In fact, Frazier's 156.1 efficiency rating was about the same as both Manziel's and first-round pick E.J. Manuel's in 2012. Of course, only a handful of teams (Georgia Tech and the service academies) run a full-fledged option offense today, and if Frazier were coming up now, he'd likely be in a different scheme. Imagine an alternate universe in which Frazier is born 18 years later and matriculates at Oregon! In that scenario, he'd have more chances to prove his merit as a passer. Even then, though, he'd probably follow much the same recent path as Denard Robinson. He would be drafted, but only as a running back or receiver. The real Frazier never was afforded that chance due in part to health issues leading up to the draft.

 

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I'd say Stewart's assessment is pretty good. I could see Tommie as kind of a Denard Robinson-type player. And his skills would translate better as a running back in the NFL than a QB, even a hybrid like RGIII.

[kchusker_chris]

Yeah, I think he's spot on with this. Dennard is a good comparison. It wasn't like players such as Tommie didn't exist in the NFL back then. Kordell Stewart left shortly after Frazier and had success in the NFL and I see them as similar.

 

Tommy was no doubt a great talent, but I sometimes look back at it and wonder what someone like Joe Dailey could have done in the same situation on those 94/95 teams. That was a pretty dominant team....seems like you could have plugged just about anyone in there at QB.

[Nobody]

Tommy was no doubt a great talent, but I sometimes look back at it and wonder what someone like Joe Dailey could have done in the same situation on those 94/95 teams. That was a pretty dominant team....seems like you could have plugged just about anyone in there at QB.

 

[knapplc]

Why the facepalm? Never heard of the Turmanator? KC is right, and we saw it happen.

[Count 'Bility]

Tommy was no doubt a great talent, but I sometimes look back at it and wonder what someone like Joe Dailey could have done in the same situation on those 94/95 teams. That was a pretty dominant team....seems like you could have plugged just about anyone in there at QB.

 

It's not far fetched to think that. Best in the country Oline, running backs, blocking receivers, defense, coach, fans, program, Oline-damn, I said that already.

 

Leave poor Joe Daily alone. The poor guy was brought in under Solich to run that offense, and then thrown to the wolves by having to teach spanish with a bunch of french when all he knew was german. The guy gets a bad rap all the time.

 

Yes, Knapp. Basically we did see it in '94. Obviously Tommie was the better/best, but other guys were able to step and lead the team to wins one way or another.

 

Another guy who always gets a bad rap that I think wouldve been very VERY successful with that kind of supporting cast is Jamal Lord. Sorry, but despite his mistakes, Jamal was pretty much everything Solich had offensively in '02 and '03. The pipeline was dying, the running backs had dropped off considerably, did he even have a legitimate fullyback?, the defense was bad in '02, and got walloped by the 3 good teams in '03. It would've been interesting to see Jamal in that system on the 94 and/or 95 teams. That guy was an absolute warrior.

 

On the flip side. How do you think Tommie would be perceived if he had to quarterback the '02/'03 squads, or even Callahan's west coast with the talentless '04 team?

[VA Husker Fan]

I like the Matt Turman legend as much as anyone, but people also seem to forget that he was so ineffective against Kansas State that Osborne put Berringer in the 2nd half when he really shouldn't have been on the field, flak jacket or not. I doubt we beat Colorado or Miami with him. 1994 would've been just another year where we steamrolled weaker teams who couldn't stop us had they been in the huddle with our offense, and losing to strong teams that could shut down a one-dimensional offense.

[Count 'Bility]

I like the Matt Turman legend as much as anyone, but people also seem to forget that he was so ineffective against Kansas State that Osborne put Berringer in the 2nd half when he really shouldn't have been on the field, flak jacket or not. I doubt we beat Colorado or Miami with him. 1994 would've been just another year where we steamrolled weaker teams who couldn't stop us had they been in the huddle with our offense, and losing to strong teams that could shut down a one-dimensional offense.

Turman played the 2nd half against Ok St the week before. Lead Nebraska to 23 second half points when only leading 9-3 at the half. No, we probably dont beat Colorado or Miami with Turman. That's obvious. But the supporting role still allowed for a plug-n-play type situation regardless.

[Hercules]

VA Husker Fan is basically right. We probably could have won every regular season other than maybe Wyoming and Colorado with Turman (although we really dominated Colorado in every aspect of the game, Turman probably could have gotten 10 points on the board, that's all we needed).

 

We wouldn't have beaten Miami with Turman. No way does Matt Turman beat Ray Lewis and Warren Sapp. Brook Berringer couldn't have done it either. Tommie Frazier made several key plays in that 4th quarter that only he could make. While he wasn't the only factor, I don't think we win that game without him.

[knapplc]

I like the Matt Turman legend as much as anyone, but people also seem to forget that he was so ineffective against Kansas State that Osborne put Berringer in the 2nd half when he really shouldn't have been on the field, flak jacket or not. I doubt we beat Colorado or Miami with him. 1994 would've been just another year where we steamrolled weaker teams who couldn't stop us had they been in the huddle with our offense, and losing to strong teams that could shut down a one-dimensional offense.

 

It's simply an example that you could put in even a decent QB (which Turman wasn't) and win with that team.

 

With that O Line, the toughest receivers (not most talented) we've ever had at Nebraska, Lawrence Phillips at RB and a bone-crunching defense, which of these QBs would have failed to get us a Big 8 title during the Frazier years?

 

Scott Frost

Eric Crouch

Jammal Lord

Joe Dailey

Zac Taylor

Sam Keller

Joe Ganz

Zac Lee

Cody Green

Taylor Martinez

 

 

We all know Frost, Crouch and maybe Joey Ganz would have gotten us not only the conference title but probably also into the National Championship hunt. I'd throw Taylor Martinez in there, whose run-first skills lend themselves better to Osborne's offense than Watson's/Beck's. Jammal Lord would likely have excelled on those teams, and almost certainly would have gotten us the Big 8 championship and possibly the National Championship game.

 

Even though Zac Taylor, Zac Lee and Sam Keller had entirely opposite skill sets to what Osborne needed, I'd venture to say they could have gotten us at the very least a Big 8 championship.

 

The weakest guys on this list are Cody Green and Joe Dailey, and I'd put $$$ down that they'd have, at the very least, gotten us the Big 8 title each of Frazier's four years. Not much doubt in my mind.

[kchusker_chris]

Exactly my line of thinking. I didn't mean to take anything away from Tommy (that's sacreligious around here - right up there with insinuating Tom might have looked the other way a few times in regards to the behavior of his team). But, that was just such a dominant period in Husker football that it seemed like whoever you threw in there would be successful. I picked one of the QB's that under performed the most in the last 20 years on purpose. It's also one of the reasons I'm still leaning towards the Nebraska period being more dominant that Alabama's current run. Take away their QB for a 2nd stringer, and they lose 2 games a year.

 

Not saying that's how it would have turned out, but I'd like to see what would have happened. One of the few teams I've seen in the last 20 years that could operate independent of a single individual. There's always a star nowadays. Not the case with Tom's teams in the mid-90's. Sure, the teams made plenty of stars...but they could elevate just about anyone with a little talent to that level.

[Nobody]

how does this thread go into discrediting tommie? so you're gonna hold the talent that tommie had around, against him? this thread has a really weird vibe.

[knapplc]

how does this thread go into discrediting tommie? so you're gonna hold the talent that tommie had around, against him? this thread has a really weird vibe.

 

Nobody is saying that. Not sure where you're getting that.

[Nobody]

how does this thread go into discrediting tommie? so you're gonna hold the talent that tommie had around, against him? this thread has a really weird vibe.

 

Nobody is saying that. Not sure where you're getting that.

 

im confused then. didn't you say that we could plug in any number of quarterbacks and have had the same success? pretty sure that discredits tommie.

[knapplc]

how does this thread go into discrediting tommie? so you're gonna hold the talent that tommie had around, against him? this thread has a really weird vibe.

 

Nobody is saying that. Not sure where you're getting that.

 

im confused then. didn't you say that we could plug in any number of quarterbacks and have had the same success? pretty sure that discredits tommie.

 

Tommie made a great team even greater - perhaps the greatest of all time. The fact that a great team could have accomplished a lot without Tommie Frazier doesn't discredit him - it's a testament to how good those teams really were.

[Nobody]

how does this thread go into discrediting tommie? so you're gonna hold the talent that tommie had around, against him? this thread has a really weird vibe.

 

Nobody is saying that. Not sure where you're getting that.

 

im confused then. didn't you say that we could plug in any number of quarterbacks and have had the same success? pretty sure that discredits tommie.

 

Tommie made a great team even greater - perhaps the greatest of all time. The fact that a great team could have accomplished a lot without Tommie Frazier doesn't discredit him - it's a testament to how good those teams really were.

 

i understand what you're getting at i guess. i still feel like tommie is getting discredited to some degree in this thread. dah well.