Obama and Race

[EbylHusker]

You do understand that the vast majority of what you just described isn't specifically conservative, at least as it is defined in reality. Just about everyone believes in as small a government as possible as long as needs are met. People disagree on what needs should be met and to what extent. Just about everyone agrees that keeping taxes as low as possible is for the best, however they disagree on what that lowest possible limit is. And so on.

 

You said a great deal without saying anything at all.

 

Edit - And to further explain the overall point that is being made, a generally conservative stance on a number of issues is to keep things pretty much status quo, and some of those things are racially oppressive at the systemic level. One has to discuss specific issues at the policy level, and each individual's stance on those issues, to begin to see the racial oppression. Speaking in general terms, as you did, really doesn't accomplish anything.

[Landlord]

Now, how are those conservative beliefs racist?

 

 

I wouldn't call those racist; I also wouldn't really call them conservative either.

[BigRedBuster]

Now, how are those conservative beliefs racist?

 

 

I wouldn't call those racist; I also wouldn't really call them conservative either.

 

Why?

[EbylHusker]

I've already explained that. What you described could just as easily be a liberal.

[BigRedBuster]

I've already explained that. What you described could just as easily be a liberal.

 

I don't know if I have ever heard a liberal democrat campaigning that the government is too big and that something would be better done outside the government framework. In fact, I hear many liberals mock conservatives who talk about smaller government and less government control over various things.

[Landlord]

I've already explained that. What you described could just as easily be a liberal.

 

I don't know if I have ever heard a liberal democrat campaigning that the government is too big and that something would be better done outside the government framework. In fact, I hear many liberals mock conservatives who talk about smaller government and less government control over various things.

 

Can't call yourself conservative but distance yourself from the republican party and then turn around and connect these two together like this.

[EbylHusker]

Once more...

 

However, I believe that smaller government is best as long as needs are met.

 

So does pretty much everyone else. This statement is meaningless unless you define what needs and met to what extent.

 

As low of taxes as possible are best for everyone involved.

 

Nobody wants to pay more taxes than are needed, but people disagree on just how much taxation is needed and where that money should go. Your statement is meaningless, or more accurately, something Captain Obvious would say.

 

Creating an environment where everyone has an opportunity to succeed is where we need to be working towards.

 

Again, there is nothing specifically conservative about this statement.

 

But, (unless actually needed) handouts to large numbers of citizens is counter productive to both the individual and society in general.

 

Once again, this describes pretty much everyone in this country. Help to people who need it is a good thing - pretty sure most everyone agrees on that. What they don't agree on is how to define who needs it and how much they should get.

 

Freedom of speech and expression of views is extremely important to society and that also means religious views and beliefs (yes, even more religions than Christian and people who are not religious). BUT, it is also extremely important that both sides of that freedom have respect for each other.

 

Nothing specifically conservative about this statement.

 

As you can see, you made an entire post that said absolutely nothing other than, "I think these things are conservative, but don't understand that everyone actually wants these things, they just don't agree on the details."

[tschu]

+1 Ebyl

[BigRedBuster]

I've already explained that. What you described could just as easily be a liberal.

 

I don't know if I have ever heard a liberal democrat campaigning that the government is too big and that something would be better done outside the government framework. In fact, I hear many liberals mock conservatives who talk about smaller government and less government control over various things.

 

Can't call yourself conservative but distance yourself from the republican party and then turn around and connect these two together like this.

 

 

OK...take the word Democrat out. I have never heard a liberal politician campaign on what I said.

[carlfense]

OK...take the word Democrat out. I have never heard a liberal politician campaign on what I said.

Do you think that Barack Obama is a liberal?

[EbylHusker]

Just because you've never heard a liberal campaigning with those phrases doesn't make them conservative... It's hard to figure if you're just trolling now or you really don't get this. It's simple logic.

 

A conservative campaigning on the statements you made, which does happen plenty, is saying absolutely nothing. Nothing. They're just bullsh#t catch phrases and meaningless babble because they apply to EVERYONE. Liberals do this, too. In fact, all politicians do. But they also speak in detail, hopefully, about policy issues and their stances on them. Those are the details, and those are where the liberal and conservative ideologies split.

[carlfense]

Just because you've never heard a liberal campaigning with those phrases doesn't make them conservative... It's hard to figure if you're just trolling now or you really don't get this. It's simple logic.

Plus . . . it's one of those Executive Orders that we hear so much about.

The President signed an Executive Order on June 13, 2011 establishing the Campaign to Cut Government Waste which includes two key initiatives:

 

1. New Oversight and Accountability Board: Building on the successful execution of the Recovery Act, the Vice President announced the establishment of a new oversight and accountability board to help federal agencies improve their performance and reduce waste, fraud and abuse across government.

 

The Recovery Act’s use of unprecedented transparency to drive accountability and prevent fraud is a success story that needs to be replicated across federal government spending. The mission of the new Board is to allow taxpayers the sam eability to track where their dollars are going and to have the same confidence that the dollars are not being lost to waste, fraud, or abuse, not just for Recovery Act dollars, but more broadly.

 

The Board will be composed of 11 members, including agency Inspectors General, agency Chief Financial Officers or Deputy Secretaries, an official from the Office of Management & Budget, and other such members the President may designate. The new Board will work closely with Chairman Devaney and the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board to expand the benefits of this new, more effective way of doing business.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/goodgovernment/actions/campaign-cut-waste

[BigRedBuster]

OK....let me ask this. What do you see as conservative or liberal?

[BigRedBuster]

OK...take the word Democrat out. I have never heard a liberal politician campaign on what I said.

Do you think that Barack Obama is a liberal?

 

A lot less liberal than what many claim. But, I believe he does tend to believe that government is the answer to many problems and that is more of a liberal point of view in my book than conservative.

Most people in government are slightly liberal or slightly conservative. That is how they get elected. If they were wacky one way or the other, they wouldn't be electable.

[EbylHusker]

OK....let me ask this. What do you see as conservative or liberal?

It depends on the person's stance on specific issues, and usually a general trend in their stances on a collection of issues. But it's all relative - liberalism is relative to conservatism, and vice versa. Calling someone a liberal or conservative with no frame of reference is meaningless. Also, fiscal liberalism and conservatism are separate, or should be separate (because they no longer are), from social liberalism and conservatism.

 

Everyone wants the smallest government possible to achieve what the country needs. Everyone wants the lowest taxation possible to achieve what the country needs. Everyone wants the most personal freedoms possible while still maintaining the safety net the country needs. Everyone wants the smallest military possible to meet the country's obligations (both domestic and abroad).

 

Nobody has a monopoly on those desires. Conservatives and liberals disagree on exactly what those needs are, how far we need to go to meet them, and what path should be taken to achieve the goals. So to discuss conservatives and liberals, one has to discuss the individual issues.

 

And to bring the entire point back around, when you look at some of the issues and the stances many Republicans (generally conservative) take, they are often in support of some current systems that promote, or at least help maintain, racial inequality. Some would call that racism, others unintentional racism, while still others probably wouldn't go that far. I believe that was Landlord's point from before.