Obama and Race

[carlfense]

Rather scathing . . . for everyone involved.

Optimists hoped Obama would usher in a new age of racial harmony. Pessimists feared a surge in racial strife. Neither was right. But what happened instead has been even more invidious.

 

For example:

MSNBC has spent the entire Obama presidency engaged in a nearly nonstop ideological stop-and-frisk operation. When Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell chided Obama for playing too much golf, Lawrence O’Donnell accused him of “trying to align … the lifestyle of Tiger Woods with Barack Obama.” (McConnell had not mentioned Tiger Woods; it was O’Donnell who made the leap.) After Arizona governor Jan Brewer confronted Obama at an airport tarmac, Jonathan Capehart concluded, “A lot of people saw it as her wagging her finger at this president who’s also black, who should not be there.” Martin Bashir hung a monologue around his contention that Republicans were using the initialism IRS as a code that meant “African-American.” Chris Matthews calls Republicans racist so often it is hard to even keep track.

http://nymag.com/news/features/obama-presidency-race-2014-4/

 

It's long but well worth a read.

[BigRedBuster]

Am I the only one who finds the author's style of writing hard to follow?

 

Oh well....

 

I agree pretty much with what I took from the article. There are some really stupid things conservatives have done and do racially but liberals have latched onto it as their favorite weapon to claim anything Republicans try to do is racist.

 

What this reinforces for me is that there are just some problems in our society that will never go away simply because of politics. Both sides have their little hot points they throw at the other side to keep their base of voters and they don't have any intentions or motivation to actually fix the problems they rant about.

[carlfense]

Am I the only one who finds the author's style of writing hard to follow?

 

Oh well....

 

I agree pretty much with what I took from the article. There are some really stupid things conservatives have done and do racially but liberals have latched onto it as their favorite weapon to claim anything Republicans try to do is racist.

 

What this reinforces for me is that there are just some problems in our society that will never go away simply because of politics. Both sides have their little hot points they throw at the other side to keep their base of voters and they don't have any intentions or motivation to actually fix the problems they rant about.

+1

[BigRedBuster]

The really sad thing is that the people caught in the middle of this particular pile of crap is really black people. On one side, they have some who do some stupid things but not everything that side does is for the sole purpose to keep black people down. The other side convinces them that any vote for a Republican is a vote for slavery.....basically.

 

Meanwhile, everyone is scared to actually talk about issues openly and frankly that would help one heck of a lot of black people move out of poverty and the feeling of being kept down by.....whoever the villain is of the day.

[knapplc]

What this reinforces for me is that there are just some problems in our society that will never go away simply because of politics.

 

Take the word "politics" out of that line and put in "race" or "nationality" or any one of 1,000,000 identifiers and that sentence would still be accurate.

 

"Us" vs. "Them" will never go away, unless after millions of years of civilization humans breed it out of the gene pool somehow. It goes back to our hunter/gatherer days, when life was brief and harsh. Anyone not part of "us" was "them," and therefore bad. Them often was the locals, people of very much the same kind/type as us, but from another tribe, or the next valley over, whatever. They were out to get the stuff that us gathered, and they were, therefore, evil/bad/whatever.

 

We gravitate toward that mentality today, pretty obviously if we look around. College football teams. Conferences. Arbitrary things like political party, geographical happenstance, monetary differences, etc. We create "them" when there really isn't a "them" because that's what we're used to, it's ingrained in us intrinsically.

 

We're a weird species. We seem to have been successful often despite ourselves.

[BigRedBuster]

What this reinforces for me is that there are just some problems in our society that will never go away simply because of politics.

 

Take the word "politics" out of that line and put in "race" or "nationality" or any one of 1,000,000 identifiers and that sentence would still be accurate.

 

"Us" vs. "Them" will never go away, unless after millions of years of civilization humans breed it out of the gene pool somehow. It goes back to our hunter/gatherer days, when life was brief and harsh. Anyone not part of "us" was "them," and therefore bad. Them often was the locals, people of very much the same kind/type as us, but from another tribe, or the next valley over, whatever. They were out to get the stuff that us gathered, and they were, therefore, evil/bad/whatever.

 

We gravitate toward that mentality today, pretty obviously if we look around. College football teams. Conferences. Arbitrary things like political party, geographical happenstance, monetary differences, etc. We create "them" when there really isn't a "them" because that's what we're used to, it's ingrained in us intrinsically.

 

We're a weird species. We seem to have been successful often despite ourselves.

 

 

Politics feeds off of everything else. Take Politics out of the issues and various people don't gain power by adding fuel to the problems.

[Landlord]

I agree pretty much with what I took from the article. There are some really stupid things conservatives have done and do racially but liberals have latched onto it as their favorite weapon to claim anything Republicans try to do is racist.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you, but would add an important disclaimer that the foundation of the republican party's platform is institutionally racist, so while the 'liberals' might be disingenuously shouting "racism!" at every corner, to some extent the actions of the republican party do stem from racism.

[BigRedBuster]

I agree pretty much with what I took from the article. There are some really stupid things conservatives have done and do racially but liberals have latched onto it as their favorite weapon to claim anything Republicans try to do is racist.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you, but would add an important disclaimer that the foundation of the republican party's platform is institutionally racist, so while the 'liberals' might be disingenuously shouting "racism!" at every corner, to some extent the actions of the republican party do stem from racism.

 

The foundation of the Republican Party's platform? Please explain. Are you talking about the Republican party ever since it was established or just in recent years?

[StPaulHusker]

Remember when Rush Limbaugh called Obama a Halfrican American? That was hilarious

 

 

 

 

 

Or stupid

[Landlord]

I agree pretty much with what I took from the article. There are some really stupid things conservatives have done and do racially but liberals have latched onto it as their favorite weapon to claim anything Republicans try to do is racist.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you, but would add an important disclaimer that the foundation of the republican party's platform is institutionally racist, so while the 'liberals' might be disingenuously shouting "racism!" at every corner, to some extent the actions of the republican party do stem from racism.

 

The foundation of the Republican Party's platform? Please explain. Are you talking about the Republican party ever since it was established or just in recent years?

 

 

I'd say just in recent years, but honestly I don't have a clue what the political climate was like past a few years ago so I wouldn't know for sure

[BigRedBuster]

I agree pretty much with what I took from the article. There are some really stupid things conservatives have done and do racially but liberals have latched onto it as their favorite weapon to claim anything Republicans try to do is racist.

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you, but would add an important disclaimer that the foundation of the republican party's platform is institutionally racist, so while the 'liberals' might be disingenuously shouting "racism!" at every corner, to some extent the actions of the republican party do stem from racism.

 

The foundation of the Republican Party's platform? Please explain. Are you talking about the Republican party ever since it was established or just in recent years?

 

 

I'd say just in recent years, but honestly I don't have a clue what the political climate was like past a few years ago so I wouldn't know for sure

 

 

When you say..."foundation of the platform" it sounds like all conservative beliefs that the platform is built around are racist. Is that how you feel?

[Landlord]

When you say..."foundation of the platform" it sounds like all conservative beliefs that the platform is built around are racist. Is that how you feel?

 

 

Not necessarily, no (I'm fairly conservative myself (ideologically, not politically)), but the platform is built by white men for white men. Even if they aren't explicitly or consciously against POC or any minority and believe in equality, the oppressive systems in our country are still being supported.

[BigRedBuster]

When you say..."foundation of the platform" it sounds like all conservative beliefs that the platform is built around are racist. Is that how you feel?

 

 

Not necessarily, no (I'm fairly conservative myself (ideologically, not politically)), but the platform is built by white men for white men. Even if they aren't explicitly or consciously against POC or any minority and believe in equality, the oppressive systems in our country are still being supported.

 

Can someone be conservative ideologically and politically without being racist?

[Landlord]

When you say..."foundation of the platform" it sounds like all conservative beliefs that the platform is built around are racist. Is that how you feel?

 

 

Not necessarily, no (I'm fairly conservative myself (ideologically, not politically)), but the platform is built by white men for white men. Even if they aren't explicitly or consciously against POC or any minority and believe in equality, the oppressive systems in our country are still being supported.

 

Can someone be conservative ideologically and politically without being racist?

 

 

The answer to that depends on a lot of things, mostly how you define terms.

 

If you think racism is simply personal and intentional discrimination against people because of their ethnicity and/or race, then yes, you can absolutely be conservative and not be racist.

 

If you define racism as being an oppressive and institutional system, then I don't know how you can reconcile that with being politically conservative, since the institutions of our country are still, presently, oppressive to minorities, and it's considered liberal to want to change things that already exist and, in the eyes of conservatives, already work, right? But you might be able to reconcile them. Like I said, I'm far from an expert on politics, and without really being able to help it, look at things through a lens of ideology and relations rather than through politics.

 

I don't want to paint with too broad a brush using certain labels. SO I guess I would say, hesitantly, that if a person is conservative insofar as they fight to keep things the way they are and have been, then that person is a contributor to racial oppression.

[BigRedBuster]

To me, it depends more on what you mean by conservatism than what it means to be racist. I think anyone with a brain would agree that racism can be both personal and institutional.

 

To me, conservatism doesn't mean I don't want anything to change. That is my form of conservatism anyway. However, I believe that smaller government is best as long as needs are met. As low of taxes as possible are best for everyone involved. Creating an environment where everyone has an opportunity to succeed is where we need to be working towards. But, (unless actually needed) handouts to large numbers of citizens is counter productive to both the individual and society in general. Freedom of speech and expression of views is extremely important to society and that also means religious views and beliefs (yes, even more religions than Christian and people who are not religious). BUT, it is also extremely important that both sides of that freedom have respect for each other.

 

Now, how are those conservative beliefs racist?

 

Also, I will admit that the Republican party is a pile of dog crap as it pertains to conservatism and any sense of reality right now but I find that is more of a fringe yet powerful movement in the party instead of the foundation of the platform.