Afghan War

[wildman]

 

 

 

For me personally, one country had people in it that attacked us...the other one didn't. At least that's a good start.

 

As of today, and as the article states, the majority of Afghan people want us there helping them. I don't think that is the case with Iraq.

 

"Majority of Afghan people?" meh. That's tricky, so so tricky. Josh Shahryar, an American based journalist, is claiming this based on election results. An election that one in six Afghans showed up for and his interpretation of those results. Abdullah Abdullah, a Tajik with stronger ties to the West and a history with the Northern Alliance recieved the most votes (45%) in the first round so I guess Shahryar is taking that as popular support for "us there helping them."

 

So Abdullah won 45% of the votes in an election in which roughly 16% of Afghans voted...and we're even going out on a limb assuming that a vote for Abdullah = support for continued US presence but making that assumption and running some crappy math we get just under 8% of Afghans supporting "us there helping them".

 

The things is, the south eastern provinces where the Taliban has its base, Kandahar, Helmand and the like - had very very low turnout. 5% of Kandahar. 3% of Helmand, 3% of Zabul, 3% of Urozgan.

 

Compare those numbers to the north with Balkh province (Mazar-e-Sharif) and Takhar province at around 30% and Kondoz at 59% turnout.

 

So really, what Shahryar means to say is that some literate and cosmopolitan Afghans, especially non-Pashtuns and those from northern Afghanistan seem to support a candidate who may be receptive to a deal that may provide for a limited American presence in the future. Well no sh#t Sherlock. Those people have always liked us...ok...liked us more than their southern Pashtun neighbors. They were never the "bad guys".

 

The election was by no means a strong endorsement of OEF-as usual.

 

 

Those are all good points. But the places that have a strong taliban presence. Probably didn't vote because of the taliban presence. So unless we go in and get rid of the taliban presence. No way to really say if they are in support of us or not. But the current evidence shows they either don't support us or are afraid to.

 

 

They probably didn't vote for the same reason they don't join the ANA/ANP and for the same reason many of them support the Taliban and similar groups. They're Pashtuns who see the Kabul government as a bunch of religiously lost and morally/economically corrupt Northern non-Pashtuns propped up by an army of Westerners. They don't view the elections or the government as legitimate. Couple that with illiteracy and their unfamiliarity with the democractic process and you get low turnout.

 

I think that the Taliban is as much a Pashtun-nationalist group as it is a religious "insurgent" group and that the chance of a bunch of Americans and Brits rolling into Kandahar and "ridding" the local Pashtuns of the Taliban is right around 0% and an Army of Tajiks doing it is only slightly better.

 

 

oh I agree with you on why they didn't vote. I was just stating their is a very small probability, that their support of the taliban and not us is fear. Even though I see it as a probability, it wouldn't be one i'd be willing to bet on.

[knapplc]

However, there is a part of me that believes at some point down the road, something bad is going to happen because of this shift in policy that we won't like.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if that's true.

 

But then again, something bad for America could come out of the Africa troubles.

 

Something bad for America could come out of the Syria war.

 

Something bad for America could come from anywhere.

 

The answer can't be to put troops everywhere and keep them there forever. We have to bring them home sometime, right?

[BigRedBuster]

 

However, there is a part of me that believes at some point down the road, something bad is going to happen because of this shift in policy that we won't like.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if that's true.

 

But then again, something bad for America could come out of the Africa troubles.

 

Something bad for America could come out of the Syria war.

 

Something bad for America could come from anywhere.

 

The answer can't be to put troops everywhere and keep them there forever. We have to bring them home sometime, right?

 

I completely agree and have said that I feel we stayed there too long.

 

I also have said that I am ready to bring everyone home and stay out of conflicts around the world. Honestly, I'm not even that comfortable with his new Syria policy of staying out of it other than overtly training rebels. I'm not sure I want to support the rebels and I'm not sure if they gain power they will be any better than Assad.

 

There is risk both ways. Right now, I am prepared to take the risk that if we stay out of it, at least we won't be risking American's lives directly in conflicts around the world. We WILL be risking American lives indirectly though if not being involved allows groups like Alqaeda to strengthen and give them the ability to plan another strike against us.

[wildman]

 

 

For me personally, one country had people in it that attacked us...the other one didn't. At least that's a good start.

 

As of today, and as the article states, the majority of Afghan people want us there helping them. I don't think that is the case with Iraq.

 

The reason I asked was I served 2 tours in Iraq. I can't say it was the same everywhere. But my first trip was September 03 - July 04 with a engineer unit in Baghdad. My unit was helping rebuild the city, so I get to see and experience a lot of the city and the locals. For the most part they treated us well. Some treated us like rock stars always chanting and cheering when we come by. Would tell us of unusual cars or people in the area that they didn't know. After checking them out, most were false leads others we got intel.

 

My second trip I was with a EOD unit located mainly in Mosul from September 05 - February 06. There we obviously were called out to take care of ied's and help keep people safe. I wasn't able to get out and see the area or meet the locals as much. So I don't know if their opinions changed or if it was just the Baghdad area I was in. But I'd say if anything at one time, earlier in the war we were welcomed and wanted.

 

Very interesting perspective. I supported the Iraq war also but feel differently about it now than the Afghan war. To me, I have no regrets for going in and getting rid of Saddam. The guy was a piece of crap that tortured and killed his own people for his own power and his two sons were even worse. I feel sorry for any of the innocent locals who were hurt or killed in the process. I don't like it that we injured Americans and lost American lives doing it.

 

It would be interesting to see (impossible) how Iraq would have been different without outside influences like Iran.

 

 

I do to. I feel bad for how the Iraqi's were treated by Saddam and his boys. The stories i hear about them from the locals is to me reason enough for going into Iraq. But also the stories I heard from American troops that were in Desert Storm make me cringe about what happened before and after we went in.

 

I to don't ever want to see American troops in harms way. But sadly it's a necessary evil that we must endure to keep the freedom we cherish and sometimes take for granted.

[wildman]

 

However, there is a part of me that believes at some point down the road, something bad is going to happen because of this shift in policy that we won't like.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if that's true.

 

But then again, something bad for America could come out of the Africa troubles.

 

Something bad for America could come out of the Syria war.

 

Something bad for America could come from anywhere.

 

The answer can't be to put troops everywhere and keep them there forever. We have to bring them home sometime, right?

 

 

Yes troops need to come home. They deserve to be with their families, friends and loved ones. In my opinion even more so then others. But we also need to keep troops in areas we occupy to keep those individuals there safe as well. I know if when I was in Iraq and we just did a massive pull out. If that area went to hell in a civil war or insurgents taking over. I'd feel very bad for the Iraqi people cause we caused that. So when we bring the troops home. We need to make sure the area can support and protect itself.

[BigRedBuster]

Wildman,

 

I value your opinion on this because you were there doing the work that all of us sit around and debate about.

 

What if what you ask for just can't be done? What if we will never be able to guarantee Iraqi's security? What if we can never guarantee Afghan people can defend against the Taliban?

 

I think this is where the administration is right now.

[wildman]

Wildman,

 

I value your opinion on this because you were there doing the work that all of us sit around and debate about.

 

What if what you ask for just can't be done? What if we will never be able to guarantee Iraqi's security? What if we can never guarantee Afghan people can defend against the Taliban?

 

I think this is where the administration is right now.

 

If there is absolutely nothing that can be done. The people refuse to help themselves. Then at that point it's time to walk away and let them deal with the consequences. I'd still feel bad for what happened in that situation, but would show no sympathy as they did it to themselves.

[Excel]

 

 

I supported the Iraq war

 

 

It would be interesting to see how Iraq would have been different without outside influences like Iran.

 

 

 

Is there a reason you chopped up my post to leave out what I said?

 

 

Obviously so I could post that smiley.

[tschu]

OK...President Obama has set out a plan to bring back basically all troops out of Afghanistan and end the American involvement in the war. I support those efforts and am tired of having our military there spending billions of dollars and American lives trying to help that country. I supported the war going in and still to this day believe we had every right to do so being that the Taliban there was harboring the people who attacked us on 9/11. I have grown to believe we simply stayed there too long trying to "Fix" a country that couldn't be "fixed".

 

This is a very good article that quite frankly...makes me sad. I have always felt we were there for the right reasons. We first went in to defeat Alqaeda and kill Bin Laden and at the same time, help the Afghanistan government and people defeat the Taliban who are a horrible group of people.

 

As this article states, I feel this war is totally different than the Iraq War.

 

LINK

 

I support bringing our troops home but at the same time, I am sad for the Afghan people because it is clear what is going to happen in their country.

 

I agree with I think every single part of this post

[WoodyHayes1951]

enough of the U.S. Imperialism.

 

They have failed in Afghanistan.

 

Bring the boys home and lets have no more spilled blood.