Who is the middle class?

[BigRedBuster]

LINK

 

I have ripped Vox lately but I found this article really interesting.

It points to something that absolutely drives me crazy about American politics. Every politician stands up there and cries about how horrible the middle class has it. They even proclaim that the middle class is shrinking. They act like they know exactly who is in the middle class and who isn't and what is happening to it.

In reality, they have no clue what they are talking about and they are using those vague statements to garner votes simply because it sounds good in a sound bite.

[TGHusker]

I think it is a hard to define middle class wt strict income #s. As the article states a salary in Detroit of $50k spends a lot differently than that same $50k in NYC. Here in Okla, our housing costs are much lower than either coasts - so less of our disposable income goes towards housing. I'd need a hefty salary increase to live in Calif or NYC. So, middle class boundaries seems to me should be defined by regional considerations.

I'd like to do away with all such terms but since class warfare was first used by FDR almost a 100 years ago in campaigns, it appears to be a fixture in how we define ourselves and as a tool politicians on both sides use to gain an advantage.

[BigRedBuster]

I think it is a hard to define middle class wt strict income #s. As the article states a salary in Detroit of $50k spends a lot differently than that same $50k in NYC. Here in Okla, our housing costs are much lower than either coasts - so less of our disposable income goes towards housing. I'd need a hefty salary increase to live in Calif or NYC. So, middle class boundaries seems to me should be defined by regional considerations.

I'd like to do away with all such terms but since class warfare was first used by FDR almost a 100 years ago in campaigns, it appears to be a fixture in how we define ourselves and as a tool politicians on both sides use to gain an advantage.

I agree.

 

And, if it can't be defined, how can a politician stand up and proclaim..."The middle class is shrinking!!!!"

 

Shouldn't you first explain how you define "middle class"?

[TGHusker]

 

I think it is a hard to define middle class wt strict income #s. As the article states a salary in Detroit of $50k spends a lot differently than that same $50k in NYC. Here in Okla, our housing costs are much lower than either coasts - so less of our disposable income goes towards housing. I'd need a hefty salary increase to live in Calif or NYC. So, middle class boundaries seems to me should be defined by regional considerations.

I'd like to do away with all such terms but since class warfare was first used by FDR almost a 100 years ago in campaigns, it appears to be a fixture in how we define ourselves and as a tool politicians on both sides use to gain an advantage.

I agree.

 

And, if it can't be defined, how can a politician stand up and proclaim..."The middle class is shrinking!!!!"

 

Shouldn't you first explain how you define "middle class"?

 

Yes they should define it - then you can see who is 'left out in the cold' when their goodie bag proposal is proclaimed in Congress.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

I think it is a hard to define middle class wt strict income #s. As the article states a salary in Detroit of $50k spends a lot differently than that same $50k in NYC. Here in Okla, our housing costs are much lower than either coasts - so less of our disposable income goes towards housing. I'd need a hefty salary increase to live in Calif or NYC. So, middle class boundaries seems to me should be defined by regional considerations.

I'd like to do away with all such terms but since class warfare was first used by FDR almost a 100 years ago in campaigns, it appears to be a fixture in how we define ourselves and as a tool politicians on both sides use to gain an advantage.

I agree.

 

And, if it can't be defined, how can a politician stand up and proclaim..."The middle class is shrinking!!!!"

 

Shouldn't you first explain how you define "middle class"?

 

Yes they should define it - then you can see who is 'left out in the cold' when their goodie bag proposal is proclaimed in Congress.

 

They won't do that because it potentially is going to turn off some voters. Just proclaiming you're fighting for a shrinking middle class without defining what that is is much more all inclusive. (even though you can't prove it's shrinking because you haven't defined it.

 

But...hey...it sure sounds good.

[NUinID]

I can't get the quote to copy and paste, but I agree with Christine Owens that being "Middle Class" is a state of mind or state of comfort.

 

1. Leaving comfortably on what the earn

2. Being able to save money for the future i.e. retirement and kids college

3. Going on vacations

4. Not living paycheck to paycheck etc.

 

Middle class to me is a value system, that to me has you always looking to the future and trying to improve your situation. That improvement can be social or financial.

 

I have people that work in my company that earn at the top end of some peoples view of "Middle Class" Yet they still live pay check to pay check and never seem to get ahead in world.

[BigRedBuster]

I can't get the quote to copy and paste, but I agree with Christine Owens that being "Middle Class" is a state of mind or state of comfort.

 

1. Leaving comfortably on what the earn

2. Being able to save money for the future i.e. retirement and kids college

3. Going on vacations

4. Not living paycheck to paycheck etc.

 

Middle class to me is a value system, that to me has you always looking to the future and trying to improve your situation. That improvement can be social or financial.

 

I have people that work in my company that earn at the top end of some peoples view of "Middle Class" Yet they still live pay check to pay check and never seem to get ahead in world.

I would agree with you.

 

However, you list one item that is very important in the discussion.

 

1. living comfortably on what you earn.

 

How is that defined? What is "living comfortably"? Like you imply in your last sentence, there are people who earn very nice incomes that don't live on what they earn. I'm sure if were part of a survey, they would not say they "live comfortably on what they earn".

 

So, how in the heck can any politician stand at a podium crying about the fact they KNOW the middle class is shrinking...bla bla bla....And, they have all the solutions to fix the problem...bla bla bla...

[NUinID]

 

I can't get the quote to copy and paste, but I agree with Christine Owens that being "Middle Class" is a state of mind or state of comfort.

 

1. Leaving comfortably on what the earn

2. Being able to save money for the future i.e. retirement and kids college

3. Going on vacations

4. Not living paycheck to paycheck etc.

 

Middle class to me is a value system, that to me has you always looking to the future and trying to improve your situation. That improvement can be social or financial.

 

I have people that work in my company that earn at the top end of some peoples view of "Middle Class" Yet they still live pay check to pay check and never seem to get ahead in world.

I would agree with you.

 

However, you list one item that is very important in the discussion.

 

1. living comfortably on what you earn.

 

How is that defined? What is "living comfortably"? Like you imply in your last sentence, there are people who earn very nice incomes that don't live on what they earn. I'm sure if were part of a survey, they would not say they "live comfortably on what they earn".

 

So, how in the heck can any politician stand at a podium crying about the fact they KNOW the middle class is shrinking...bla bla bla....And, they have all the solutions to fix the problem...bla bla bla...

 

 

Well, that is a good question, that same question was asked in the article you linked. I guess living comfortably means different things to different people. Moving to a middle class lifestyle if you grew up in poverty often means leaving behind friends and family. It means changing the way you look at money and how you socialize, and that can be a scary and uncomfortable situation.

 

Earning a lot of money doesn't mean you automatically move to a different way of thinking about money. That's what has to happen.

[BigRedBuster]

Well, what it boils down to for me is when I hear a politician in the next election campaign because of how horrible the middle class has it and how he knows it's shrinking and how he knows he can fix it.....

 

I can basically say......BS!!!!

[NUinID]

Well, what it boils down to for me is when I hear a politician in the next election campaign because of how horrible the middle class has it and how he knows it's shrinking and how he knows he can fix it.....

 

I can basically say......BS!!!!

 

Exactly

[strigori]

Well, what it boils down to for me is when I hear a politician in the next election campaign because of how horrible the middle class has it and how he knows it's shrinking and how he knows he can fix it.....

 

I can basically say......BS!!!!

Well, we are quickly descending into a two class system, and its getting too damned close to resembling the feudal system.

 

Now at issue is just about any politician is not "middle class" and has no idea how "they have it" as they are almost certainly in the 1% and odds are they were never in their lives forced to live paycheck to paycheck. So the idea that they have some solution to a problem that is encouraged by many to most of their financial backers is a fantasy worthy of Tolkien.

[zoogs]

I'm curious since I missed it, BRB, but what has Vox been up to lately that has you frustrated with them?