Taxing corporations

[BigRedBuster]

I have talked about this idea for years. I think this is the first article I have read specifically about it.

 

LINK

 

However, this would never go through because corporations in the US have been politically labeled as these evil organizations that we need to really sock it to.

 

Obviously, if they would eliminate income tax on corporations, there would need to be some other adjustments in taxation.

 

[Bigred_inSD]

If we eliminated taxes on corporations all that money would find its way into the pockets of CEO the lawyers who got them this and the legislators who passed it, Not to the working class

[strigori]

That was one of the most moronic, fantasy world things I have ever read.

 

1 - Hiding assets overseas should be illegal. Spinning things as being a burden on smaller businesses is beyond a joke. Apple had over $70 billion in liquid assets at one point. And they still pay employees at their retail stores in the $10-12 an hour range. By all means lets give more money to millionaires and billionaires, and continue to expand the wealth gap.

 

2 - Eliminating corporate taxes will absolutely increase stock values. And that means exactly jack s*** the overwhelming majority of Americans. The Dow hit an all time high today, companies are swimming in capitol and not reinvesting in their operations, and are historically stingy on wages, well for the rank and file. CEO pay is at an all time high. There is no validity to this argument.

 

3 - Replacing lost tax revenue with consumption taxes? So we again have a rich business focused guy promoting increasing taxes on the poor so he can increase his own wealth. Consumption taxes are the most regressive form of taxation out there.

 

Corporations have very little to complain about. And helping them skyrocket their stockholders and CEO and exec wealth needs to be a non-starter. We need to solve the wealth inequity problems in this country, not exacerbate them.

[zoogs]

If we eliminated taxes on corporations all that money would find its way into the pockets of CEO the lawyers who got them this and the legislators who passed it, Not to the working class

I think the point is valid that the big corporations are not the ones who are hit by these taxes. It's the smaller ones that don't have the resources to employ armies of finance guys to figure out all this tax management stuff.

 

So how about leveling the playing field? Maybe not necessarily less, but a simpler code. But what are the odds of that happening?

[Bigred_inSD]

 

If we eliminated taxes on corporations all that money would find its way into the pockets of CEO the lawyers who got them this and the legislators who passed it, Not to the working class

I think the point is valid that the big corporations are not the ones who are hit by these taxes. It's the smaller ones that don't have the resources to employ armies of finance guys to figure out all this tax management stuff.

 

So how about leveling the playing field? Maybe not necessarily less, but a simpler code. But what are the odds of that happening?

"Leveling the playing field" that sounds like some of that Nazi/liberal/socialist/anti american/ sissy/ "cat" talk! This is merica son.

 

I like your idea, but 0 chance it happens.

[strigori]

 

 

If we eliminated taxes on corporations all that money would find its way into the pockets of CEO the lawyers who got them this and the legislators who passed it, Not to the working class

I think the point is valid that the big corporations are not the ones who are hit by these taxes. It's the smaller ones that don't have the resources to employ armies of finance guys to figure out all this tax management stuff.

 

So how about leveling the playing field? Maybe not necessarily less, but a simpler code. But what are the odds of that happening?

"Leveling the playing field" that sounds like some of that Nazi/liberal/socialist/anti american/ sissy/ "cat" talk! This is merica son.

 

I like your idea, but 0 chance it happens.

 

That must make our Constitution the most "Nazi/liberal/socialist/anti american/ sissy" document in existence. The whole thing is about all rules and laws treating everyone the same.

 

The fix should not be to make getting away with things easier, it should be installing very punitive penalties for the companies who use these methods to escape their rightfully owed taxes. Hell, with the whole BS of "corporations are people" tax evasion gets a citizen prison time. Only fair we apply the same mentality to them as well.

[BigRedBuster]

LOL....yeah. The reaction I expected by some.

[strigori]

Any other response is being willfully ignorant of reality.

[Moiraine]

LOL....yeah. The reaction I expected by some.

 

Because it's the correct reaction.

[BigRedBuster]

Why?

[strigori]

Why? Do you follow along with current events or know history at all? How does giving more money to those who are already swimming in it benefit anyone? The very people who are 100% responsible for the staggering wealth inequity in this country are the ones championing adding more money onto their spreadsheets. This does not benefit the nation's people or economy one bit. Yes, the Dow will go higher. But it is at a record high now, one that economists said was not possible several years ago. And where is the economic recovery? Are businesses higher more full time employees? Are they giving raises? Or are they giving the blood from a stone routine, cutting benefits and perks from workers and continually trying to screw their workers in every way possible?

 

WalMart actually has Welfare info in their stores so their workers are encouraged to go onto the system, even though they are at the top of the Fortune 500. yet they refuse to pay living wages to their workers. People who worked many of those jobs 20 years ago could make enough to not need governmental assistance. Even the big ado about them raising wages to $9 is still a joke, as many states are raising min wages to that level. A whole $18k a year. Meanwhile the Waltons themselves have more money than the entire state of Arizona. But by all means, lets help them out and give them some more on the backs of people who are already heavily burdened.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter is the nation as a whole does better when taxes are higher on corporations and the wealthy. History shows this clearly. And as we don't tend to learn from history very well, we are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past. Right now we are headed for another "Robber Baron" era. Hopefully we have another Teddy Roosevelt on the way to dig us back out.

[Bigred_inSD]

Why? Do you follow along with current events or know history at all? How does giving more money to those who are already swimming in it benefit anyone? The very people who are 100% responsible for the staggering wealth inequity in this country are the ones championing adding more money onto their spreadsheets. This does not benefit the nation's people or economy one bit. Yes, the Dow will go higher. But it is at a record high now, one that economists said was not possible several years ago. And where is the economic recovery? Are businesses higher more full time employees? Are they giving raises? Or are they giving the blood from a stone routine, cutting benefits and perks from workers and continually trying to screw their workers in every way possible?

 

WalMart actually has Welfare info in their stores so their workers are encouraged to go onto the system, even though they are at the top of the Fortune 500. yet they refuse to pay living wages to their workers. People who worked many of those jobs 20 years ago could make enough to not need governmental assistance. Even the big ado about them raising wages to $9 is still a joke, as many states are raising min wages to that level. A whole $18k a year. Meanwhile the Waltons themselves have more money than the entire state of Arizona. But by all means, lets help them out and give them some more on the backs of people who are already heavily burdened.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter is the nation as a whole does better when taxes are higher on corporations and the wealthy. History shows this clearly. And as we don't tend to learn from history very well, we are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past. Right now we are headed for another "Robber Baron" era. Hopefully we have another Teddy Roosevelt on the way to dig us back out.

Standing ovation sir.

 

If these companies want to receive all this government welfare they damn well better be ready to pee in a cup and pass drug tests

[BigRedBuster]

First off, I have never said anything about not taxing the rich. I'm talking about not taxing corporations.

 

Here is the thought I have had for a long time. Even though unemployment numbers have come down, they are still too high. I believe I have seen where the non participation rate of the job market is at an all time high. This is not good and it is a HUGE drain on the economy, government and society. No, I'm not blaming the poor unemployed for all our problems. I am blaming those facts though for a lot of the ills we are seeing now.

 

Yes, the rich need to pay their fair share.

 

However, how do we fix the unemployed/non-participating problem? Where will these people eventually find a job to support themselves? Most people are employed at a corporation at some point. Yes, there are other jobs other than at a corporation but most people will be find jobs there.

 

So, somewhat, I view corporations not as these big evil empires that do nothing but destroy us or leach from society, they add to it.

 

We need more jobs that they create.

 

So, my idea is, if a corporation is a socially responsible entity (can have a big discussion on what exactly that is) and employ Americans to produce what ever they produce instead of shipping jobs to other countries, don't tax them. Allow them to keep that money to compete with other foreign competitors and bring even more jobs here.

Now, getting back to the rich. Who you DO tax, are the people who benefit from those corporations. That includes, owners, stock holders, employees...etc. If someone draws a benefit from a corporation, you tax that benefit or income.

 

In other words, create an environment that is easy for the corporation to operate financially while having reasonable regulations that require them to be socially and environmentally responsible.

 

And, this really has nothing to do about increasing stock prices or whatever. Honestly, I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Right now, stock prices are going up but we still have the unemployment problem. Why? So, why not tax the employees and the rich who are benefiting from what ever is happening now to create those higher stock prices and allow the corporation to actually keep the money IF they bring jobs back to the US and grow the job market here?

 

Higher employment, creates even more tax revenue. Higher employment creates a society that doesn't need as many expensive social programs to combat what unemployment causes. Higher employment creates more wealth (for more people) in society to pay for individual education and advancement.

 

I'm simply asking for people to step outside the box and look beyond the paradigms that we have always had on this subject.

 

PS...as for your Walmart example. My idea would be to not tax Walmart. Tax the Waltons. And, I would even be willing to think about making their "tax exempt" status contingent on a very high percentage of their employees earning over a certain amount.

[AR Husker Fan]

That seems to be a variation of the "job creators" argument. If so - and I may be misreading what you wrote - job creators are not corporations. Giving tax breaks to corporations or the wealthy does not create jobs. What creates jobs is demand. What creates demand is disposable income to those who will spend it, which means the middle and lower class. Corporations will not add jobs due to tax cuts; they hire only when demand exists for the services or goods they offer. Demand increases with those with little or no disposable income suddenly have that income.

 

Both corporations and the individually wealthy are currently paying the lowest effective tax rate in the last 50 years. It has not led to more jobs. But each time there is a middle/lower class tax break - a substantial one - it has driven up demand which in turn has driven job creation.

[zoogs]

This has been an interesting discussion. I'm open to any crazy idea if it has economists' backing -- I mean, it seems plausible that plenty of good policy ideas do not get tried often because they are politically difficult.

 

But there's perhaps a lot less consensus about this than the one guy from Boston University indicates.

 

His argument doesn't sound that bad, in theory. It seems to be, "You won't be able to stop companies from doing this offshore tax stuff. So, remove the incentives. Keep it all here. Tax the individuals." And generally, I favor the idea that it's not about a sense of fairness or anything, it's about volume and growing the economy at large.

 

I am not an economist, though. Though I am sure the proponents would tell us their proposals don't fall under the examples given, history would not seem to be on their side.