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Mavric

NCAA to Investigate Michigan State/Nassar

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Not sure if anyone has been following this, but it's looking pretty bad. Coaches and the administration seemed to ignore the warnings and reports. I don't understand how people can let that happen. This is not going to end well for MSU.

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As terrible as the whole thing is, this really is out of the NCAAs jurisdiction IMO.  Kinda like how they threw the book at Penn St, then relented and gave back schollys when the lawsuits starting coming.

 

The people at MSU that turned a blind eye to this need to be punished to the full extent of the law (or worse), but taking away scholarships from non-revenue sports and banning those sports for post-season play is not solving any problems.

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The NCAA is never consistent with its penalties. It's has terrible enforcement. Since this was gymnastics I suspect there will not be any punishment for the major programs other than scholarship reductions. No post season bans or anything. But with the NCAA who knows. 

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The NCAA absolutely should get involved in this. They shouldn't allow programs to keep getting away with this s#!t, or be part of their association. Punishing them if they're guilty and actually following through on the punishment would help in preventing at least some of it from happening at other places.

 

The athletes will be fine. They can go to one of hundreds of other schools out there. Stop worrying about them when this s#!t happens. They will be fine. MSU isn't the only school with women's athletics. It's not even the only school in Michigan. And Penn State isn't the only school with football.

 

 

Unfortunately the NCAA is stupid. They're right to get involved but their response will be wrong, just like it was for Penn State.

Edited by Moiraine

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I just read a statement from one of the victims. This guy was sick. 150+ girls. Allowed to continue abuse for another year. MSU tried to brush it aside.  It makes me ill. MSU complains about not getting any respect. They lost mine for good. 

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Its just a coincidence that Hollis retired today, eh?  I bet the retirement had nothing to do with this story coming out, right?

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5 minutes ago, husker98 said:

Hmm. It's like Baylor all over again.

 

Yup.  And it makes you wonder how many other places this is going on.  And how many other coaches/ADs are worried that their kingdoms could all come crashing down.

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There is a UNL connection to both the Baylor and MSU stories.  Paula Lavigne, the ESPN reporter breaking these stories, is a UNL grad.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Red Five
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19 minutes ago, husker98 said:

Hmm. It's like Baylor all over again.

The thing is this might be proven to be across multiple sports from Gymnastics, to rowing and even basketball and football swept things under the rug or flat out ignored allegations. 

 

AD had no choice but to leave(or he would be canned because this all falls on him) but the trickle down effect to Football and Basketball will be interesting. In Baylor and PSU cases everything was football focused, but this is multiple teams within the MSU athletic program which is really concerning as an organization they let it slide across the board.

 

Truly sad stuff.

Edited by Minnesota_husker

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I don't really care what arguments I hear - the fact is when you have an accusation of assault give to a coach, or a trainer, or anyone else involved at the university, you effing record it somewhere and then look at it again in case there's ever another one. Even if their excuse is they didn't know about the previous accusations, it isn't a real excuse because they failed to keep a record of it. All of these accusations should have been known about, and by the time you get the 2nd or 3rd, you investigate. They didn't investigate until 2014 when the first was in the late 90's. Maybe if they'd kept track (that's assuming they didn't sweep it under the rug) they could've stopped it 10 years ago and prevented dozens of girls from being sexually assaulted.

And on top of that, when you get an accusation like this and you know the guy works with another huge organization, you effing talk to them.

Edited by Moiraine
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55 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

I don't really care what arguments I hear - the fact is when you have an accusation of assault give to a coach, or a trainer, or anyone else involved at the university, you effing record it somewhere and then look at it again in case there's ever another one. Even if their excuse is they didn't know about the previous accusations, it isn't a real excuse because they failed to keep a record of it. All of these accusations should have been known about, and by the time you get the 2nd or 3rd, you investigate. They didn't investigate until 2014 when the first was in the late 90's. Maybe if they'd kept track (that's assuming they didn't sweep it under the rug) they could've stopped it 10 years ago and prevented dozens of girls from being sexually assaulted.

And on top of that, when you get an accusation like this and you know the guy works with another huge organization, you effing talk to them.

Exactly. This is highly concerning and no excuses fly.

 

I think the football and basketball programs had issues unrelated to Nasser but just proves that some institutions like MSU dont care at all and let things slide across all sports/organizations. 

 

 

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I should've added there... you investigate the 1st one, which their gymnastics coach did not. But when you have 2 or 3 it should be much more obvious there is something wrong.

Edited by Moiraine

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1 hour ago, Minnesota_husker said:

Exactly. This is highly concerning and no excuses fly.

 

I think the football and basketball programs had issues unrelated to Nasser but just proves that some institutions like MSU dont care at all and let things slide across all sports/organizations. 

 

 

 

It's much more than that. There were multiple reports of rape and sexual assault against several football and basketball players that got swept under the rug. This is an institution wide cover up and ignoring of the reports. It's about much more than Nasser. Dantonio and Izzo are likely done.

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They should be banned from NCAA participation period. This is disgusting and beyond belief. I know this won't happen but they should be kicked from NCAA as well as B1G. This is so far beyond what PSU did it amazes me. 

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3 hours ago, Comfortably Numb said:

It's much more than that. There were multiple reports of rape and sexual assault against several football and basketball players that got swept under the rug. This is an institution wide cover up and ignoring of the reports. It's about much more than Nasser. Dantonio and Izzo are likely done.

 

 

 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/betsy-devos-rolled-back-title-ix-protections-two-days-a-1822462475/amp

 

 

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20 hours ago, Red Five said:

 

Yup.  And it makes you wonder how many other places this is going on.  And how many other coaches/ADs are worried that their kingdoms could all come crashing down.

 

20 hours ago, Minnesota_husker said:

The thing is this might be proven to be across multiple sports from Gymnastics, to rowing and even basketball and football swept things under the rug or flat out ignored allegations. 

 

AD had no choice but to leave(or he would be canned because this all falls on him) but the trickle down effect to Football and Basketball will be interesting. In Baylor and PSU cases everything was football focused, but this is multiple teams within the MSU athletic program which is really concerning as an organization they let it slide across the board.

 

Truly sad stuff.

 

 

It really makes me wonder how you stop this. They covered this up to protect their athletic programs. Does handing down the death penalty at Penn state, or Baylor, perhaps motivate programs to root out this cancer in their programs in fear of losing millions in dollars in revenue?

 

Perhaps its time to find out with Michigan State since the abuse and athletic department indifference continue unabated.

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Is this was a complete and utter disregard for student safety to protect the athletic department would this not go miles beyond PSU and Baylor? It looks like both PSU and Baylor combined. They need to be booted from the B1G if this all comes to be true. I have a feeling they are going to uncover much more at MSU as this continues. 

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Quote

Allswede told Outside the Lines that about seven years ago, an attorney from the university's general counsel's department came to her office to try to reassure her that coaches were taking allegations of sexual violence seriously. Allswede said the attorney told her how Dantonio had dealt with a sexual assault accusation against one of his players: He had the player talk to his mother about what he had done.

 

"That did not reassure me at all," Allswede said in the Outside the Lines report. "There's no guarantee that that had any effect, any help, whatever."

 

 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/22235975/former-michigan-state-counselor-says-mark-dantonio-needs-accept-individual-responsibility

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Watching the E 60 special on it this AM....They consistently hid accusations encouraged victims to not press charges. Fought like hell to keep info out of the public eye even when freedom of information act happened. 

 

When the dept of ed was investigating they did not hand over any of their Nasser info etc. 

 

Players were "punished" internally or not at all for their actions. 

 

ESPN had to sue MSU to get public police reports. 

 

Burn this place down....

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What I don't get is why?

 

Individuals do awful things. They exist everywhere. Their association with MSU wouldn't have hurt MSU if they had dealt with it in the proper way.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine said:

What I don't get is why?

 

Individuals do awful things. They exist everywhere. Their association with MSU wouldn't have hurt MSU if they had dealt with it in the proper way.

Exactly, I just really hope they set the ultimate example with MSU, they have no business having an athletic department from what is being uncovered. 

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Nassar's lawyer Shannon Smith

 

Quote

“There were girls who had perfectly normal lives that never questioned the medical treatment done by Larry Nassar — and there is a legitimate medical treatment that involves touching sensitive areas and even penetrations,” Smith told WWJ Legal Analyst Charlie Langton. “Some of those girls, to be quite frank, they didn’t even know what to think because they never felt victimized. He was never inappropriate to them. And because of everything they’ve seen, they just feel like they must have been victimized. And I think that’s really unfortunate.”

 

Quote

“I have a very hard time believing that my client could have even possibly assaulted that many people day in and day out in front of their parents, and that every single one of those things was a crime, but he was such a manipulator he got away with it. I just can’t imagine that’s true,” she said. “As much as they were allowed to speak at sentencing, and that was something we agreed to, even during the sentencing, more and more people were coming forward thinking ‘I was fine my whole life and now all of a sudden I have realized I was a survivor.’ I think that’s really sad.”

 

Quote

“We had some issues in the case,” she said. “And there was also a lot of child pornography that could not be refuted. There’s facts and information that I would never share with the public, nor could I share with the public, and so at the end of the day it was really his decision.”

 

 

 

First of all, she didn't have to talk about the case. So I'm going to treat her as a person instead of Nassar's lawyer. She also might be voicing what other people have thought about before.

 

And she's a complete moron.

It really doesn't matter if, at 12,13,14, these girls didn't feel victimized. At that age it never enters most girls' minds that there are older men that are attracted to them. They likely assume it's "ew" for the old man just as much as it is for them. Old men are father figures, not boyfriends. So it never occurs to them that a man might go home after talking to them, or in this case giving them a medical exam that involves touching their genital area, and get off on it. But they can definitely feel victimized at age 25 when they realize this perverted man was getting off on touching them when they were girls, and also when they realize he wasn't doing it for any medical reason. I believe the ones that made accusations against him were older and knew what was going on. E.g. the MSU student athletes.

 

Quote

During a January 20 interview with NPR, Denhollander recalled discussions other gymnasts had about medical visits with Nassar. "The conclusion was, 'Well, this must be medical treatment, because he'd never be allowed near us if it wasn't.' And as a 15-year-old, that was my thought process," she said.

 

It's okay to feel victimized 10 years later when you find out why he was doing it.

 

I had a friend who had a dad who would tickle torture me even when I told him to stop, and it hurt when he did it. No one else I knew did this to me, and no one else tickled me in a way that hurt. At the time he was just an annoying old guy I didn't want to be around. Years later it has entered my mind he used tickling as an excuse to touch me. Maybe that wasn't it at all and it was innocent, but if I were to find out he did it to every girl aged 8-12 he ever met and had a stash of child porn, I would be pretty damn sure that is what was going on. That's like 1/1000th of what happened to these girls but it reminds me of it.

Edited by Moiraine
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5 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

Hopefully criminal investigations and charges still coming for the MSU admin that tried to cover this up.

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5 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Hopefully criminal investigations and charges still coming for the MSU admin that tried to cover this up.

Amen. They are still in denial and cover up mode. 

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On 1/25/2018 at 1:13 PM, Moiraine said:

The NCAA absolutely should get involved in this. They shouldn't allow programs to keep getting away with this s#!t, or be part of their association. Punishing them if they're guilty and actually following through on the punishment would help in preventing at least some of it from happening at other places.

 

The athletes will be fine. They can go to one of hundreds of other schools out there. Stop worrying about them when this s#!t happens. They will be fine. MSU isn't the only school with women's athletics. It's not even the only school in Michigan. And Penn State isn't the only school with football.

 

 

Unfortunately the NCAA is stupid. They're right to get involved but their response will be wrong, just like it was for Penn State.

If it's a systemic issue from the top down, then certainly punish the entire organization. Otherwise, why not just punish the offenders? I do think punishments for sex offenders are far to light and far stiffer sentencing/punishments are in order, but any in depth discussion on that probably belongs in the P&R forum.

 

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On 5/16/2018 at 4:01 PM, RedDenver said:

Hopefully criminal investigations and charges still coming for the MSU admin that tried to cover this up.

As someone who has seen first hand what these kinds of sex offenses can do to people, ANYONE that knows and doesn't act should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law. If fullest extent isn't enough then we need to make some changes to our statutes.

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2 hours ago, Mavric said:

 

  Most criminals might not have much, but what many of the do have are daughters.  Good luck with that, Larry.  

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I dont understand why the hammer hasn't come down on MSU yet. They rank up there with PSU as pedofile enablers. 

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