Husker in WI

I'd encourage the people claiming our dline is fat and out of shape to rewatch the games and find me plays where they are the problem. There aren't very many.

No, I'm just calling BS on the "Minnesota and Syracuse fired their DCs, so should we!" arguments because those are entirely different situations. That was Syracuse's DCs 4th year and they were getting worse. Minny's DC took over a defense giving up 14 fewer points per game than the one Chinander inherited, and made them 9 points per game worse in year 2. I just understand the situation Chins inherited, and think the improvement is enough to not fire him for now. Find me another example of a guy taking over a 36ppg defense, or even close to that, and having them completely turned around in year 2.

Give him some of the supplements the Peters were on and I bet he scores. They look fat, but they are not out of shape. Before he started getting nicked up Darrion was playing more snaps per game than the Peters would have, our rotation at NT really hasn't developed much. It's also just a different style of defense, and I know a lot of people don't like the style. But it needs bigger bodies than the 4-3.

I'd say the core will still be Stille/Domann/Taylor-Britt etc, but yeah. We'll be a lot better when redshirt freshmen playing major roles are the exception instead of the rule.

That 59th rank for Minnesota is including the last 4 games where the new DC only gave up 12.3 per game. I don't know where they were ranked after 9, but their average at that point would've finished tied for 92nd. Bankers defenses were statistically not bad, but I think the Iowa bloodbath game sealed his fate. And that should have helped Chins - 2 years removed from a good defense isn't a complete dumpster fire. But there was s lot of roster turnover, which I don't think the new Minnesota DC is dealing with. You're right Chinander has struggled more than expected, but I don't have to squint too hard to see what seem like valid reasons. Just trying to point out the differences between this and other situations where the DC was fired.

Oh for sure. But I think between Henrich, Hannah, Snodgrass, and out of nowhere Reimer someone has to. I hope.

That would actually be really interesting, hadn't thought of that. I like it. And even if Honas/Miller start, rotating in Heinrich and Hannah should be better than the current rotation.

Syracuse before Brian Ward in 2015: 31ppg 2016: 38.6 2017: 32.2 2018: 27 2019: 30.7, including 58 to a team averaging 31.1 in a very embarrassing fashion. He took over a bad defense, made it worse, got it back to where it started, a little better, then regressed. If Chins gives up 30+ in year 4, we can fire him. Let's stop pretending that firing the DC is a magic bullet. Firing one in year 2 with any kind of improvement is bizarre. Firing DCs who are making things worse is understandable, that's not what we have for now anyway.

For reference, the DC in question took over a team giving up 22.1 ppg in 2016. That stayed at 22.8 in 2017, but ballooned to 31.8 in his part of 2018. Including 55 to a team that averaged 23.3 in all other games. He took over a good defense and started getting terrible results. As has pointed out many times in this thread, Chins took over a terrible defense and has made it better. Not as quickly as we would like, but measurably so.

Fun fact, we are paying him less than we paid Diaco! And last year, we actually still payed Diaco more than Chins because we paid off his $875k salary for the year.

I mean we were 116th nationally before he got here. I agree there's a long way to go, but right now the top 4 scoring defenses in the country are all Big Ten teams. It takes a really good defense to break into the top part of the Big Ten, and no one is arguing we're a really good defense yet. We are an improving defense though.

Well include the baselines too.. UCF was 37.7 the year before he got there. We were 36.4. He also had to have been the worst OLB coach of all time for us to credit much of Oregon's implosion solely to him. If we got stagnant in year 3 I'll be a little more concerned for sure, we don't have a lot to go on yet.

Right, I'm with you on that. And again, the biggest jump for Venables was year 3 - let's see Chins year 3 at least. The point of the Huskerchief's post was their defense reversed a slide after firing Steele, but as you pointed out our defense is still improving with Chinander so it's not the same. My additional point is I think Clemson probably still has similar success if they kept Steele, he's still considered a good DC.

And Steele's defenses at Auburn have done this: 2016 - 17.1 2017 - 18.5 2018 - 19.2 2019 - 17.4 He hasn't exactly been a slouch, so you could argue given more time and Clemson's improved recruiting they would still be fine. Chins numbers are currently going down, and I don't know who the Brent Venables would be this year. Notice the biggest improvement is in Venables' 3rd year - lets see what Chins 3rd year is like.

I do tend to read too much into things and assume the worst, so fair enough sorry for jumping to that. But I realistically don't know what/where else the information would come from that would've prevented the rumors. It's really on people to not let the rumors go too far, and people suck at that.

You're right, my bad. He is playing special teams for the Giants though.

And they may be looking for someone, we don't know. But it also depends on how the coaches perceive the issues. If they truly believe the scheme is good and we just don't have the dudes yet, adding another voice may not be the move. But if they're realizing Chinander's defense doesn't have all of the adjustments developed yet, and experienced guy would be very helpful. I think that's a little bit of what they were going for with Tuoti, get some of Wilcox's tweaks by extension.

I think it would be really difficult since the staff has been together since UCF. You can argue that would be 'personal reasons' getting in the way, but it could also just be too many cooks in the kitchen. Unless they are very similar to Chinander in style, I think it would make things worse, not better. I think it would have to be something like an advisor, who knows his role is to help but not run the defense. I don't think a lot of guys are up for that. OSU has a great situation with co-DCs, a young guy and an experienced one. But they were hired together, they knew that was the arrangement from the start. There's just not a lot of guys who fit that mold, an experienced coach who is willing to mentor a newer DC while mostly taking a back seat.

Fair enough, and I agree. I'm just a little more optimistic next year will have more pieces and won't be a repeat. I admittedly do not have a lot to back that up at the moment though.

Those are still very different reasons to need to fire someone. You're assuming Frost won't fire them because of personal reasons, and I would say it's very likely that's not the case and he actually believes in their scheme and coaching abilities. He could be wrong, but that's more similar to something like Dantonio - his loyalty to his offensive staff could get him fired. Difference is they're not producing after 7 years, not 1 and a half into a rebuild.

Are you implying some of our assistants are domestic abusers or pedophiles? That's why they needed to fire those guys, not because they were bad coaches. Those were completely different situations than needing to hire a btter coach.

I'll expand on this too - people tired of hearing the same things, what do you want them to say? We're not good right now. No press conferences until we are? Talk about how we don't need to get better? They all say the same things because it's true - when you're bad you need to get better. In the end the results matter more than what's said, but we need more time for conclusive results.

His dad liked some tweets suggesting he transfer somewhere where they'll get a bowl game, bench Martinez, etc.

Coach speak doesn't go away, Saban talks about continuing to get better as much as anyone. Obviously the results need to come, but firing people isn't always what it takes to win.

Well technically it's not, doing that in 4 games would be. Seriously I'm with you though, the handling of Rahmir's redshirt has me baffled. But our pass pro has been alright since OSU. Not great, but serviceable.