BigPeterJ

Its pretty simple. Look at our last 2 or 3 classes. They have more talent than anyone else in our division. You simply cant use talent ad an excuse after next year.

I reference this in another thread. The roster flip is a real thing. If your truly interested look at this. Looking at our roster , i feel a little bit better about where we are headed than what i felt after the season. Ive mentioned Riley didnt leave us much talent, and i didnt realize this until sfter signing day. So our coaching and player development under this staff may not have been as bad as i thought. I was looking in depth at our roster by position, and most of what SHOULD be our best players, are gonna be here at least 3 more years. Offense- OL- We didnt lose anybody from last year, but we lose Jaimes, Wilson, Raridon, and Farniok after next year, but we got guys like Jurgens, Piper, Corcoran and Benhart that will only be sophmores or freshman next year. Corcoran and Jurgens could eventually be 2 of the best linemen in the conference, and we got them both for 4 and 3 more years respectively, along with a bunch of fairly rated OL with 3 or 4 more years here, if only 25% of them develop well that will give us 3 or 4 more alongside Jurgens and Corcoran giving us a very good starting OL. QB- We dont lose anybody from last year, and we wont for the next year either. We lose AM and Vedral after 2 more years, and we got Luke and Smothers for 4 more years. RB-we dont really lose anyone from last year (Washington was hardly here, and Mazour isnt anyone we cant replace), we only lose Mills after next year, and we got Thompkins, Rhamire, Sevion, and Scott III for 4 more years. TE- we dont lose anyone from last year, and only lose Stoll after next year. We have Rafdal, Vokolek, and Allen here for 2 more years, and guys like Hickman here for 4 more. WR- We lose Noa, Woodyard, and Williams from last year, and we only lose Spielman after next year. We have Warner, MqQuitty, and Manning here for 2 more years, and guys like Wandale here for 3 more and Betts, Fleming, and Brown here for 4 more years. Defense- DL-We lose our entire starting line from last year, but only lose Stille after next year. We have Keem Green, Daniels, Damian Jackson, Walker and Thomas for 2 more years (lots of unproven). And Wildeman and Ty Robinson for 3 more, and Hutmacher and Gunnerson for 4 more. (We need a couple more here next class) LB- we lose Barry and Davis from last year, which we wont miss much. And we lose Honas, Miller, and Domann after next year. We have Tanner and Eteva for 2 more years, and then a whole bunch of guys like Henrich, Hanna, Snodgrass, Nelson, and Keyshawn Greene for 3 or 4 more years. DB- we lose Jackson and Lee from last year, and Dismuke, Sullivan, and Bootle after next year. We have Cam Taylor and Deontai Williams for 2 more years. We have Farmer, Newsome, Wright, Clark, Lynum, and Delancy, and 4* Pola-Gates 4* Gray and 4*Francois, for 4 more years. Conclusion: We hardly lose anyone except for our DLine and Lamar Jackson. And most of our best players will be here for at least 3 more years. We should only get better from here on out. And 2 years from now we should be pretty good. Every single position should be better than last year except for our DLine. And every single position should keep getting better each year for the next 3 years. The future looks alot brighter friends.

How can talent not be an excuse after next year?? You serious clark? Because after next year we will have more talent than anyone in our division. Something we can't really say right now.

Most of this i agree with. But Daniels was a stud. And most of these really young guys STILL wont be uperclassmen. Some will be Sophmores, and MOST will be Freshman. So your right in your first half, very wrong in your second half.

I really think it will only take 1 more year of mediocrity. If we aren"t in the top 25 in 21', i will be the first to complain about Frost and staff. Talent won't be an excuse after next year.

Anyone know how much truth there is to these Walters rumors? If Walters is gone, can receiver recruits get out of their LOI? Or is that only if the head coach leaves?

Im right there with you brother. I didnt realize the extent of this until this past month when i was looking at our roster. I was pissed off at our coaching after the Iowa game and the season as a whole. I thought we had more talent than everyone in our division except maybe Wisconsin, and yet we looked like a s#!tty team. Then i examined our roster. And realized we had no more talent than anyone, (maybe equal to the rest of our division). Riley's last class was rated 23(?), but most of the top guys from that class aren't here (including the top 3, and most of the top 10). Frost's first class had one month, he lost most of Riley's top recruits, and lost some more to attrition. 90% of our talent will be freshman or Sophomores next year. I respect your posts as you speak from the heart, we just gotta be patient for 1 more year. I blame most of this on the hype so many people put on this past year. Anyone who looked at the roster should have known we wouldn't be that good this past year, but as fans our hearts fell for it. We still should have been 7-5 or so, but Frost had very little to work with.

Looks like we won't be lacking dudes in the future, as long as half these guys develop well.

Yea i get the humor of it, but honestly it was more about just putting someone in who wasnt a disaster. Our fans are too polite to chant "Pull A M, Pull A M, PULL A M", so they chant LUUUUUUUUUUKE instead....

Lost in all the negativity, and in all the suckage at Linebacker, was a dominant nosetackle and a dominant corner. Both Daniels and Jackson were very good. I think Jackson will be 2nd round, and Daniels 4th round. Look at it that way and you wonder why we weren't better on defense. Opposing teams simply targeted our weakness. Your defense is only as good as your weakest link in a way. A CB and a Nosetackle cant defend the pass to the middle of the field. So despite losing our 2 best players i think our defense will be ok. Probably about equal to this year's defense, but more balanced. Our offense should be much better however.

I doubt it....i picture them sitting around talking about how hot their wives are and asking each other for tips in the bed....then after things cool down moving on to politics.

Well we return everyone else plus Williams and some good new talent, so i do think we will be better in pass defense. But Lamar was better than anyone else on our team. Watch him get picked in the 2nd round.

You don't hear a great CB's name much. Jackson's man almost never caught the ball. Plus he made some great plays. We will miss him. Btw his film is GREAT. Im not sure where u got this idea he has poor film. The guy is also a good man.

Of course. The one thing we should all agree on is we need to keep this staff around as long as we can. Constant change in staff is what got us into this mess. Constant continuity in staff is what will get us out. (Wether thats getting back to 9-3 seasons or Conference Championships depends on how good our staff is) but either way, we need to keep these guys around at least 3 more years.

This x 10. Our jimmies and joes are freshman and sophmores. Its gonna take maybe 1 more year of patience. But ill be on here when we are top 20 in 21'. Edit: the only way we mess this up is if we fire Frost. If we give him even just 2 more years we will see the fruit. Hopefully next year, but it probably wont be until 21'.

Like you mentioned though, Frost brought in A TON of lineman so far. I agree that our Line should be pretty good by 21'. I think it should be quite a bit better next year also though. We got so many young lineman, SOME of them have to develop well. And we know Corcoran and Jurgens are gonna be good.

Unless its to a TE who is big but slow, if the TE never makes any moves but just barrels over someone and falls forward then it qualifies as manly. If the TE tries to juke though......way too cute

If we make a big leap it will probably be with the same players too...maybe Minnesotas talent were all young and they vastly improved after a year or 2 in college.

The good news about next year is we play are toughest games late in the year. So our young guys could be decent by then. Plus all this negative momentum could be broken and we could be 5-1 or 6-1 to start the year helping our recruiting momentum, and giving our guys confidence. The optimist in me sees this coming year like Minnesota was this year. We are still a year away, but things could potentially fall into place for us, so im not going to count this season as a total building year. Minnesota was young but they managed to squeak by their first half of the year, build momentum, and really improve enough to beat some of the tough teams they played late. I see us as a year behind Minnesota, and if we coach well and get some breaks, this year could go like Minnesota's did last year. Dont forget Minnesota was not supposed to be this good, if Frost is the coach that Fleck is we have a chance.

This. People, including myself until this month, dont realize the lack of players we had. Our Junior and Senior class are very lacking. I'm not saying Frost coached well, but even Urban Meyer would have struggled with our team. The whole assumption that we had more talent than the rest of the WEST is wrong. I thought we did too, until i looked in depth at our roster. However, our upcoming freshman and sophmore classes do have more talent than the rest of the WEST, plus fit our scheme better. I agree to some degree with most of everything thats been posted in this thread. Frost didnt play call very well, or gameplan very well. He had a bad year coaching. But the idea that last year's play is indicative of our future is off. Our talent will still be very young next season, but I'll go on record and say we will finish in the top 20 in 21'.

I agree with most of this, but not many teams have had as much attrition as we have from our upper classes. If i was a gambling man, i would be putting my money on Nebraska after next season. We will probably have another year with less than 8 wins, the majority of the country will start to think Frost just isn't gonna get it done, even many husker fans will start to think that after one more year. People will be sleeping on us as our talent rich 19' and 20' classes are finally sophomore and juniors. We will probably be predicted to only win 7 games or so in 21', and we should be a good team that year. Our biggest problem defensively was lack of quickness and speed in our backers and one safety spot. We just got 2 very fast backers in Eteva and Keyshawn Greene, and Demorrio Williams is back from injury and has much more speed than Eric Lee had. Also our 2 new Safeties Francois and Gray are both 4*. Our biggest problem offensively, well we had a few. Quarterback play, receiver play, and OL. By the end of the year our OL was actually average. And we return everyone plus Gaylord and a bunch of young guys with another year of development. OL should be pretty good next year, and fairly deep. We got some stud receivers coming in, and Omar Manning should be ready immediately. Quarterback play should be much better as AM should be better, and if he isn't than we got Luke or Vedral, both of who should be better than AM was this year. We're gonna be ok. My only position of worry is our DL, were gonna miss Daniels, but with every other position group both on offense and defense being better next year, we will be be a better team.

Looking at our roster , i feel a little bit better about where we are headed than what i felt after the season. Ive mentioned Riley didnt leave us much talent, and i didnt realize this until sfter signing day. So our coaching and player development under this staff may not have been as bad as i thought. I was looking in depth at our roster by position, and most of what SHOULD be our best players, are gonna be here at least 3 more years. Offense- OL- We didnt lose anybody from last year, but we lose Jaimes, Wilson, Raridon, and Farniok after next year, but we got guys like Jurgens, Piper, Corcoran and Benhart that will only be sophmores or freshman next year. Corcoran and Jurgens could eventually be 2 of the best linemen in the conference, and we got them both for 4 and 3 more years respectively, along with a bunch of fairly rated OL with 3 or 4 more years here, if only 25% of them develop well that will give us 3 or 4 more alongside Jurgens and Corcoran giving us a very good starting OL. QB- We dont lose anybody from last year, and we wont for the next year either. We lose AM and Vedral after 2 more years, and we got Luke and Smothers for 4 more years. RB-we dont really lose anyone from last year (Washington was hardly here, and Mazour isnt anyone we cant replace), we only lose Mills after next year, and we got Thompkins, Rhamire, Sevion, and Scott III for 4 more years. TE- we dont lose anyone from last year, and only lose Stoll after next year. We have Rafdal, Vokolek, and Allen here for 2 more years, and guys like Hickman here for 4 more. WR- We lose Noa, Woodyard, and Williams from last year, and we only lose Spielman after next year. We have Warner, MqQuitty, and Manning here for 2 more years, and guys like Wandale here for 3 more and Betts, Fleming, and Brown here for 4 more years. Defense- DL-We lose our entire starting line from last year, but only lose Stille after next year. We have Keem Green, Daniels, Damian Jackson, Walker and Thomas for 2 more years (lots of unproven). And Wildeman and Ty Robinson for 3 more, and Hutmacher and Gunnerson for 4 more. (We need a couple more here next class) LB- we lose Barry and Davis from last year, which we wont miss much. And we lose Honas, Miller, and Domann after next year. We have Tanner and Eteva for 2 more years, and then a whole bunch of guys like Henrich, Hanna, Snodgrass, Nelson, and Keyshawn Greene for 3 or 4 more years. DB- we lose Jackson and Lee from last year, and Dismuke, Sullivan, and Bootle after next year. We have Cam Taylor and Deontai Williams for 2 more years. We have Farmer, Newsome, Wright, Clark, Lynum, and Delancy, and 4* Pola-Gates 4* Gray and 4*Francois, for 4 more years. Conclusion: We hardly lose anyone except for our DLine and Lamar Jackson. And most of our best players will be here for at least 3 more years. We should only get better from here on out. And 2 years from now we should be pretty good. Every single position should be better than last year except for our DLine. And every single position should keep getting better each year for the next 3 years. The future looks alot brighter friends.

True, i realized the irony halfway through my sentence. Thats what our AD said- that we dont want to be Iowa, and that 9-3 every year wasnt good enough. So firing Bo was supposed to be to shoot for the stars. Then he hired Mike Riley.....i think it was just a terrible AD move.

This is simple. Boe was a better developer. But he didnt care enough about recruiting. As good as he was at developing players, we would have never been great under Bo. Probably never this bad either. We chose to shoot for the stars or die. I didnt like the hire, or the timing of his fire. But i do respect wanting to be more than Iowa....thats why Eichorst hired Riley.

We got 3 four-star players on our team that Frost didnt recruit. Raridon, Dismuke, and Farniak. Unless Riley recruited McQuitty and Tanner (i cant remember). Put it this way. We have 25 4* players including this incoming class. Only SEVEN were Sophmore or Junior last year making them Jr or Sr this coming year. 4* players on our team Incoming Freshman : 9 (10 inc. Omar) Will be Soph. or Redshirt Fresh: 8 Will be Juniors: 4 (inc Omar) Will be Seniors: 4 We have very little talent in our upperclassmen. We may have more 4* on our roster than the rest of the BIG West , but probably not in our upperclassmen. Frost had a point when he said we need more guys. He was left very little from Riley. We also lost some 3* guys to attrition. Our upcoming Jr and Sr classes are probably on level with Purdue and Illinois. Thats partly why we sucked, and will have a tough time being good next year.