RedDenver

That worked out pretty well in Iran...

I'm thinking of both Clintons and Obama as political figures that didn't do social things because of economic conservatism. The ACA is great example of a right-wing healthcare plan that's economically conservative and was passed by Obama without the public option or cost controls because those would have been too economically liberal.

Good points. I've mentioned this before, but what Gabe Brown is doing with restoration agriculture in North Dakota (on dry lands without irrigation) is where we should be heading with our agriculture IMO.

So you're talking more about Hispanic immigrants as opposed to Hispanic citizens that can vote? I think those are noble goals; however, I think what we've had in the last few decades is economic conservatism as a crutch to avoid doing what needs to be done.

I smell teen spirit.

I thought you'd be the reverse as I thought you'd called yourself a libertarian at some point (but I'm probably just misremembering). I was once economically and socially conservative but have slowly moved to liberal/progressive on both. But I initially became more socially liberal and have only more recently become progressive economically.

I think this is the strongest argument you've made for pensions over contributions.

What do you mean by "escaping"?

Out of curiosity, @B.B. Hemingway (or other conservatives) would you move to a socially liberal/economical conservative party or a economically liberal/socially conservative party? Or are there issues that you could hold your nose on and vote for a Dem candidate?

That statement seems... kind of racist. It's one thing to say your experience with the Hispanics in your high school was a certain way, but to project across an entire race of people is too broad.

Depends which parts of conservatism you mean, but there's a large part of all the minority groups that are economically conservative. The problem is that conservatism has been tied to the racism of much of the Republican coalition going back the passage of the Civil Rights Act, and the modern GOP is moving towards racism instead of away from it. There's also a lot of other parts of current conservatism that aren't necessarily conservative (at least they seem arbitrarily assigned to conservatism to me) like: 2A, pro-life, pro-religion

Employee contributions are not required as there are plans that literally do not require them. But that's somewhat beside the point, as no matter how the plan is configured, funds put into your plan by your employer do not come out of the employee's pay, which was what you previously said was what was good about pensions. As for investing poorly, that's not unique to individuals as seen by the original post in this very thread. But you make a good point about the legal guarantees of defined benefit being much stronger than defined contribution plans.

It'll be interesting to see if that continues to hold or if there's another swing from moderate to liberal during the next Dem Presidential primary like 2016. Voters are also becoming more polarized, which could mean there's less to be gained electorally by moving towards the center.

Opinions cannot be quantified, so your claim makes no sense; otherwise, all opinions would be misinformation. You can make an argument why that opinion is not supported by facts or evidence, but it's disingenuous to call it "misinformation". The matching money from an employer isn't deducted from your pay. In fact, some employers will contribute to your 401k without the employee contributing. I looked up the PBGC and it may not be as guaranteed as you might think. There's a cap for what they'll pay out, not all pension plans are insured, there's no cost of living adjustments, and the PBGC can choose not to pay if there's insufficient funds. From the FAQ:

Look at the article I linked and you'll see each generation is less conservative than the one before. It's always possible that views will change as even the most accurate polling is only a snapshot in time, but the data shows that people have been trending away from conservatism for decades. Conservative values are going to change or disappear - that's just what happens over time. For example, conservatism originally had the core belief of environmental protection and conservation, but that's not even a part of current conservatism.

Seems more like your opinions than evidence for misinformation. Taking your first sentence: Pensions obviously cannot literally be cancer. That's an analogy reflecting someone's opinion, which isn't misinformation. I've worked for several companies that had no vesting schedule and only one that did have vesting, but the money in my account is still mine, so I don't see how that's misinformation either. Lots of companies gotten out of paying their pension plans. Most of the ones that come to mind were through bankruptcy like United Airlines. And of course there's companies that simply folded that stopped paying out pension because they no longer exist.

Lincoln is also cultural distinct from many other places, so what could be the prevailing opinion and attitudes may be completely different somewhere else.

Can you show what's misinformation?

I'm sure you're a lot more aware of your immediate surroundings than anything nationally-focused, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. And the polling isn't "speaking" for the whole country - it's a measure of the opinions of the whole country. If you want to critique the polling methodology, then go right ahead - Pew describes what they did in great detail. But this polling discussion started because of an assertion you made: "I assure you that traditional conservative values are alive and well among young people."

The studies I've seen show that the Earth should be able to support 15-20 billion people, which is also what other studies have estimated as the point we're currently heading towards. Plus, none of the people I talked to about reducing our population want to be the people that get reduced. Keep in mind that half of all the food in the world is disposed of as waste, so it's not an issue of not being able to produce enough food.

Wow. Must be really dusty in here.

Absolutely. Older people turn out to vote in WAY bigger numbers than younger people. But the combination of the Boomers dying and the Millennials voting more as they older means that the Millennials will overtaking the Boomers as the largest voting generation at some point. Pew is a reputable pollster, and polling for opinions is WAY more accurate than going with a single person's opinion - even if it's @B.B. Hemingway

It just felt like a "drat" kind of moment. I have been watch a lot of Sherlock recently. Sparkle Motion? Wait, am I having a stroke?

Drat! I thought redux and I were about to be besties.

I wasn't talking about right or left, but rather the older generation and how they consume their news vs the younger generation. But polling disagrees with you on how conservative young people are: http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/01/the-generation-gap-in-american-politics/