Mike & Mike in the Morning

[MOD_CHAMPION]

Kids these days that are looking at colleges to play football do not remember or care about the old historic colleges with tradition...especially in the mid west. The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program. They are looking at Florida and the players that dont get the scholarships from Florida are going to USF for the location and a chance to be part of something on the rise. USC is still a big draw and the Cals/Oregons of the football world are gaining in popularity. Ohio St/Mich/ND are recruiting great every year because they are either in the BCS spotlight or still have that something special about them that lures them in. I just dont see that Nebraska has that any more. Callahan ruined your program and it is going to take AT LEAST 4 years before you will see any improvement from that football program. Depending on the coach, it will take two years to get recruiting back in the right direction and another year or so to gain the young kids trust again in the institution and football program. Solich was what, 9-3 when he was fired, and people were really taken back by that. Then the whole Callahan fiasco...your program is broke and will not be fixed in a year. Kids want the sure thing and Nebraska right now is not.

Your whole point basically rests on what you want to happen, not reality. You have no idea of the condition of this program, the facilities it has to offer, or even a basic grasp of what happens on the recruiting circuit.

 

I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise - I see where that gets a person. All I can do is advise you to pay attention and learn. It'll do you good.

 

i beg to difer...i have an exceptional grasp on the recruit circuit. I am viewing this from an outsider, not a fan of the program. I think that fans of programs tend to over value their respective institutions. We are not going to convice each other, so i guess that is that

 

So as DCHusker said, how have we managed to recruit these last few years? As I remember, we've been in the top 20 recruiting each of these last 4 years, and we certainly haven't been vying for a nation title or even seriously competing for a good deal of this time. So how did we do it? Bill Callahan must be magic?

[Boston Boxer]

 

i beg to difer...i have an exceptional grasp on the recruit circuit.

 

For someone with such an exceptional grasp it's rediculous that you can argue Nebraska's problem is recruiting when we've brought in top recruiting classes every year. You're argument isn't flawed, your evidence is just plain false.

 

part of the problem...i also said Callahan played a big part in ruining your program

[DCHusker]

 

well, Notre Dame, for one, has brought in several top recruiting classes as well...and they dont look so hot to me. I believe that the "star rankings" in recruiting magazines is a bit off...so you must take with a grain of salt all the top school recruiting rankings IMO. So i dont care what the ranking say, but i will tell you USC, LSU and Florida have FAR BETTER players on their teams then Nebraska. If you cant see that, then your judgement is clouded by your fandom

 

So, the stars on USC's, Florida's, and LSU's recruits are worth more than the stars on Nebraska's and ND's recruits? Give me a break. I see players on those teams playing better than Nebraska's players, that doesn't mean they have vastly superior raw talent. It means they're better coached and better prepared to play the game. I doubt you've watched many NU games, if you had you'd understand that perhaps with the exception of USC, the biggest problem was the failure to coach fundamentals, gameplan, and make half-time adjustments, not inferior talent on the field.

[knapplc]

So, the stars on USC's, Florida's, and LSU's recruits are worth more than the stars on Nebraska's and ND's recruits? Give me a break. I see players on those teams playing better than Nebraska's players, that doesn't mean they have vastly superior raw talent. It means they're better coached and better prepared to play the game. I doubt you've watched many NU games, if you had you'd understand that perhaps with the exception of USC, the biggest problem was the failure to coach fundamentals, gameplan, and make half-time adjustments, not inferior talent on the field.

DING!DING!DING!DING!DING!

 

Winner!

 

This is exactly what's been going on around here. Boxer is posting from a want to point of view, not a knowledgeable point of view. There's a huge difference there.

[TrumanBD]

I have lived in Nebraska, but have also lived in several other states in different parts of the country. The perception by others outside the Nebraska family is drastically different than what is generally found here on this board. I love the Nebraska football tradition, but I would also tend to agree that the Nebraska job maybe isn't quite as good as most Nebraskans would like to think.

 

There are the obvious "downsides."

1. The challenges of being in a moderate sized down in sparsely populated state

2. Extreme pressure and somewhat unrealistic expectations. (a coach with a 9 win season who had been the conference coach of the year twice was fired.)

 

I think if Nebraska was so appealing of a job to so many coaches out there, then Callahan would probably have never been hired.

 

Look at who the two finalists supposedly are for this job: Pelini and Gill. It doesn't appear that either one is being courted by a lot of other schools. I would agree with ESPN that a big name like Saban, Meyer or others does not look at this job as being apealing, but I also don't think Nebraska is looking for that type of coach. Devaney, Osborne, Solich. For the most part those guys would have had a difficult time transitioning to another school.

 

To me, this is the true beauty of Nebraska football. The job is probably only appealing to a small group of coaches, but hopefully this time a coach will be hired that fits the unique situaition in Lincoln. I think comparing Michigan, Notre Dame and any other traditional powerhouse school to Nebraska is flawed, because Nebraska is such a unique sitation, but that is what makes it so great.

[Boston Boxer]

 

well, Notre Dame, for one, has brought in several top recruiting classes as well...and they dont look so hot to me. I believe that the "star rankings" in recruiting magazines is a bit off...so you must take with a grain of salt all the top school recruiting rankings IMO. So i dont care what the ranking say, but i will tell you USC, LSU and Florida have FAR BETTER players on their teams then Nebraska. If you cant see that, then your judgement is clouded by your fandom

 

So, the stars on USC's, Florida's, and LSU's recruits are worth more than the stars on Nebraska's and ND's recruits? Give me a break. I see players on those teams playing better than Nebraska's players, that doesn't mean they have vastly superior raw talent. It means they're better coached and better prepared to play the game. I doubt you've watched many NU games, if you had you'd understand that perhaps with the exception of USC, the biggest problem was the failure to coach fundamentals, gameplan, and make half-time adjustments, not inferior talent on the field.

 

 

IMO, the only true, NFL talent guy, on your team is probably Purify right now. Not to say others wont develope, but you just done have the studs you used to.

[knapplc]

IMO, the only true, NFL talent guy, on your team is probably Purify right now. Not to say others wont develope, but you just done have the studs you used to.

NFL talent type of guys aren't what you need in college football, though. Look at the last several Heisman winners. Look at Ryan Leaf. Look at... the list is huge.

 

Warren Sapp was one of the most fearsome D-Linemen in the NFL for most of his career, and we beat him like a drum in the Orange Bowl!

 

That's a frequent argument in discussions of talent, but it's not really a good measuring stick for college success.

[melscott62]

I have lived in Nebraska, but have also lived in several other states in different parts of the country. The perception by others outside the Nebraska family is drastically different than what is generally found here on this board. I love the Nebraska football tradition, but I would also tend to agree that the Nebraska job maybe isn't quite as good as most Nebraskans would like to think.

 

There are the obvious "downsides."

1. The challenges of being in a moderate sized down in sparsely populated state

2. Extreme pressure and somewhat unrealistic expectations. (a coach with a 9 win season who had been the conference coach of the year twice was fired.)

 

I think if Nebraska was so appealing of a job to so many coaches out there, then Callahan would probably have never been hired.

 

Look at who the two finalists supposedly are for this job: Pelini and Gill. It doesn't appear that either one is being courted by a lot of other schools. I would agree with ESPN that a big name like Saban, Meyer or others does not look at this job as being apealing, but I also don't think Nebraska is looking for that type of coach. Devaney, Osborne, Solich. For the most part those guys would have had a difficult time transitioning to another school.

 

To me, this is the true beauty of Nebraska football. The job is probably only appealing to a small group of coaches, but hopefully this time a coach will be hired that fits the unique situaition in Lincoln. I think comparing Michigan, Notre Dame and any other traditional powerhouse school to Nebraska is flawed, because Nebraska is such a unique sitation, but that is what makes it so great.

 

I would think it that would seem that everyone realizes that was a mistake, and that it was the fault of just one person. look at how much time we gave callihan considering how bad he did. as long as you dont TOTALLY screw up, you are going to get 6-7 years before you even feel any real heat. that should be enough.

[captain obvious]

So, the stars on USC's, Florida's, and LSU's recruits are worth more than the stars on Nebraska's and ND's recruits? Give me a break. I see players on those teams playing better than Nebraska's players, that doesn't mean they have vastly superior raw talent. It means they're better coached and better prepared to play the game. I doubt you've watched many NU games, if you had you'd understand that perhaps with the exception of USC, the biggest problem was the failure to coach fundamentals, gameplan, and make half-time adjustments, not inferior talent on the field.

DING!DING!DING!DING!DING!

 

Winner!

 

This is exactly what's been going on around here. Boxer is posting from a want to point of view, not a knowledgeable point of view. There's a huge difference there.

 

This guy is very transparent. He's terrible at hiding his personal bias when asking "serious questions." Dude says sh#t just to get us riled up.

 

Which is why I reacted to him the way I did.

[NPhusker]

 

 

sorry, i was too busy untwisting Captain Obvious' panties...

 

Kids these days that are looking at colleges to play football do not remember or care about the old historic colleges with tradition...especially in the mid west. The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program. They are looking at Florida and the players that dont get the scholarships from Florida are going to USF for the location and a chance to be part of something on the rise. USC is still a big draw and the Cals/Oregons of the football world are gaining in popularity. Ohio St/Mich/ND are recruiting great every year because they are either in the BCS spotlight or still have that something special about them that lures them in. I just dont see that Nebraska has that any more. Callahan ruined your program and it is going to take AT LEAST 4 years before you will see any improvement from that football program. Depending on the coach, it will take two years to get recruiting back in the right direction and another year or so to gain the young kids trust again in the institution and football program. Solich was what, 9-3 when he was fired, and people were really taken back by that. Then the whole Callahan fiasco...your program is broke and will not be fixed in a year. Kids want the sure thing and Nebraska right now is not.

 

 

 

Your explanation is essentially that Nebraska can't recruit with other top teams in the country.

 

The problem is, that argument can't explain how we were able to bring in top recruiting classes the past several years. It's not because we've been immensely successful. We haven't been in the BCS spotlight in a long, long time, and still we competed with the top teams for recruits. The "old historic college with tradition" counts for something. So do great facilities and an immense, loyal fan base.

 

The problem to me doesn't seem to be getting kids to play for Nebraska, the problem is getting a coaching staff that can get them to play well.

 

Maybe you can make the case that the coaching change will hobble our recruiting for the next couple years. I can buy that. But to argue that we can't compete with Florida, USC, LSU, etc for recruits because we're not currently a "BCS spotlight program" is just inaccurate.

 

well, Notre Dame, for one, has brought in several top recruiting classes as well...and they dont look so hot to me. I believe that the "star rankings" in recruiting magazines is a bit off...so you must take with a grain of salt all the top school recruiting rankings IMO. So i dont care what the ranking say, but i will tell you USC, LSU and Florida have FAR BETTER players on their teams then Nebraska. If you cant see that, then your judgement is clouded by your fandom

 

It is always interesting to hear what people outside husker fans have to say cause that lets me know what the perception of NU really is, Boxer you just got bashed but you have to realize that you are in hostile territory and husker fans are a little fragile right now after what Billy C. did to us so you might get some overreaction. Having said that i would like to respond to some of your statements.

 

Kids these days that are looking at colleges to play football do not remember or care about the old historic colleges with tradition

 

This might be true that kids that live outside the midwest dont know much about NU and its tradition. But you cant tell me that when you bring these kids in and show them the trophy cases, the heismen trophies, the all-americans, all the acedemic accolades that these kids dont get a feel for what NU tradition is like. A lot of our recruits and players right now dont really know what NU tradition is, and that is Callahan and Pederson's fault for not embracing NU's tremendous past. Trust me the next coach to come in will embrace this tradition and once again it will be a great recruiting tool. Also if kids just want to play football then according to you, Nebraska doesnt have much talent and all these players could play football right away.

 

The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program.

 

When NU was great back in the 90's what kind of NFL players did we have, NU didnt have All-Pro QB's or All-American WR(besides Irving Fryar). No we made our living on O-Linemen, and RB's on offense and then we would recruit great D-ends, LB, good cover corners, and ball hawking safeties. Callahan almost did the exact opposite and tried to get great QB's and WR's, which is not going to work cause those kids are going to the Floridas and USCs. I dont want to go back to 30 options a game and pounding the FB and RB, but NU needs to somewhat get back to their roots and go after the great O-Linemen, and RB's find a hidden gem to play QB(there is plenty of those in TX-Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing), not a NFL prototype. Then focus on defensive recruiting.

 

it is going to take AT LEAST 4 years before you will see any improvement from that football program.

 

I really dont beleive this at all, it will probably take NU that long or longer to get back to the National Championship game, but we will be much improved in the very near future. NU has a lot more talent than what showed up on the field this year, mostly becuase of the coaching staff but part of that blame falls on the players, next year the coaching staff wont let this team under acheive. If you want to know about the talent we have i refer you to one of my earlier post (LINK)

 

Solich was what, 9-3 when he was fired, and people were really taken back by that

 

This is a good point and it really did hurt NU's reputation among the coaches of the world. However the man who fired Solich, his name was Steve Pederson, was fired half way through this season, and then was replaced by Tom Osborne. I guarentee you alot of coaches would love to work for Osborne because they know he would give them time, and that he knows exactly what they are going through.

 

Kids want the sure thing and Nebraska right now is not.

 

All these kids that are looking for a sure thing, I hope they go to USC and Florida, cause then they will jsut bring those programs down instead of bringing NU down. I dont want kids who just want things given to them, and dont want to have to work to become #1. I want a kid who is willing to work to get back on top cause that is what NU needs to do right now.

[Boston Boxer]

 

 

sorry, i was too busy untwisting Captain Obvious' panties...

 

Kids these days that are looking at colleges to play football do not remember or care about the old historic colleges with tradition...especially in the mid west. The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program. They are looking at Florida and the players that dont get the scholarships from Florida are going to USF for the location and a chance to be part of something on the rise. USC is still a big draw and the Cals/Oregons of the football world are gaining in popularity. Ohio St/Mich/ND are recruiting great every year because they are either in the BCS spotlight or still have that something special about them that lures them in. I just dont see that Nebraska has that any more. Callahan ruined your program and it is going to take AT LEAST 4 years before you will see any improvement from that football program. Depending on the coach, it will take two years to get recruiting back in the right direction and another year or so to gain the young kids trust again in the institution and football program. Solich was what, 9-3 when he was fired, and people were really taken back by that. Then the whole Callahan fiasco...your program is broke and will not be fixed in a year. Kids want the sure thing and Nebraska right now is not.

 

 

 

Your explanation is essentially that Nebraska can't recruit with other top teams in the country.

 

The problem is, that argument can't explain how we were able to bring in top recruiting classes the past several years. It's not because we've been immensely successful. We haven't been in the BCS spotlight in a long, long time, and still we competed with the top teams for recruits. The "old historic college with tradition" counts for something. So do great facilities and an immense, loyal fan base.

 

The problem to me doesn't seem to be getting kids to play for Nebraska, the problem is getting a coaching staff that can get them to play well.

 

Maybe you can make the case that the coaching change will hobble our recruiting for the next couple years. I can buy that. But to argue that we can't compete with Florida, USC, LSU, etc for recruits because we're not currently a "BCS spotlight program" is just inaccurate.

 

well, Notre Dame, for one, has brought in several top recruiting classes as well...and they dont look so hot to me. I believe that the "star rankings" in recruiting magazines is a bit off...so you must take with a grain of salt all the top school recruiting rankings IMO. So i dont care what the ranking say, but i will tell you USC, LSU and Florida have FAR BETTER players on their teams then Nebraska. If you cant see that, then your judgement is clouded by your fandom

 

It is always interesting to hear what people outside husker fans have to say cause that lets me know what the perception of NU really is, Boxer you just got bashed but you have to realize that you are in hostile territory and husker fans are a little fragile right now after what Billy C. did to us so you might get some overreaction. Having said that i would like to respond to some of your statements.

 

Kids these days that are looking at colleges to play football do not remember or care about the old historic colleges with tradition

 

This might be true that kids that live outside the midwest dont know much about NU and its tradition. But you cant tell me that when you bring these kids in and show them the trophy cases, the heismen trophies, the all-americans, all the acedemic accolades that these kids dont get a feel for what NU tradition is like. A lot of our recruits and players right now dont really know what NU tradition is, and that is Callahan and Pederson's fault for not embracing NU's tremendous past. Trust me the next coach to come in will embrace this tradition and once again it will be a great recruiting tool. Also if kids just want to play football then according to you, Nebraska doesnt have much talent and all these players could play football right away.

 

The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program.

 

When NU was great back in the 90's what kind of NFL players did we have, NU didnt have All-Pro QB's or All-American WR(besides Irving Fryar). No we made our living on O-Linemen, and RB's on offense and then we would recruit great D-ends, LB, good cover corners, and ball hawking safeties. Callahan almost did the exact opposite and tried to get great QB's and WR's, which is not going to work cause those kids are going to the Floridas and USCs. I dont want to go back to 30 options a game and pounding the FB and RB, but NU needs to somewhat get back to their roots and go after the great O-Linemen, and RB's find a hidden gem to play QB(there is plenty of those in TX-Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing), not a NFL prototype. Then focus on defensive recruiting.

 

it is going to take AT LEAST 4 years before you will see any improvement from that football program.

 

I really dont beleive this at all, it will probably take NU that long or longer to get back to the National Championship game, but we will be much improved in the very near future. NU has a lot more talent than what showed up on the field this year, mostly becuase of the coaching staff but part of that blame falls on the players, next year the coaching staff wont let this team under acheive. If you want to know about the talent we have i refer you to one of my earlier post (LINK)

 

Solich was what, 9-3 when he was fired, and people were really taken back by that

 

This is a good point and it really did hurt NU's reputation among the coaches of the world. However the man who fired Solich, his name was Steve Pederson, was fired half way through this season, and then was replaced by Tom Osborne. I guarentee you alot of coaches would love to work for Osborne because they know he would give them time, and that he knows exactly what they are going through.

 

Kids want the sure thing and Nebraska right now is not.

 

All these kids that are looking for a sure thing, I hope they go to USC and Florida, cause then they will jsut bring those programs down instead of bringing NU down. I dont want kids who just want things given to them, and dont want to have to work to become #1. I want a kid who is willing to work to get back on top cause that is what NU needs to do right now.

 

i know i am going to get bashed every time i post on this board...i started out on the wrong foot here and you never get a second chance to make a good first impression, so i kind of expect the treatment. All is good, i am a big boy, i can take it.

 

Thank you for your great post and i can see your point as well.

[TrumanBD]

"The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program.

 

When NU was great back in the 90's what kind of NFL players did we have, NU didnt have All-Pro QB's or All-American WR(besides Irving Fryar). No we made our living on O-Linemen, and RB's on offense and then we would recruit great D-ends, LB, good cover corners, and ball hawking safeties. Callahan almost did the exact opposite and tried to get great QB's and WR's, which is not going to work cause those kids are going to the Floridas and USCs. I dont want to go back to 30 options a game and pounding the FB and RB, but NU needs to somewhat get back to their roots and go after the great O-Linemen, and RB's find a hidden gem to play QB(there is plenty of those in TX-Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing), not a NFL prototype. Then focus on defensive recruiting."

 

 

 

I think that is one of the best points I have heard about Nebraska's sitaution. I couldn't agree more. If you can recruit the linemen, running backs and defensive players, you don't have to have a NFL quarterback to win at the college level. It will always be hard to get the next Joe Montana to come to Nebraska.

[T_O_Bull]

"The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program.

 

When NU was great back in the 90's what kind of NFL players did we have, NU didnt have All-Pro QB's or All-American WR(besides Irving Fryar). No we made our living on O-Linemen, and RB's on offense and then we would recruit great D-ends, LB, good cover corners, and ball hawking safeties. Callahan almost did the exact opposite and tried to get great QB's and WR's, which is not going to work cause those kids are going to the Floridas and USCs. I dont want to go back to 30 options a game and pounding the FB and RB, but NU needs to somewhat get back to their roots and go after the great O-Linemen, and RB's find a hidden gem to play QB(there is plenty of those in TX-Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing), not a NFL prototype. Then focus on defensive recruiting."

 

 

 

I think that is one of the best points I have heard about Nebraska's sitaution. I couldn't agree more. If you can recruit the linemen, running backs and defensive players, you don't have to have a NFL quarterback to win at the college level. It will always be hard to get the next Joe Montana to come to Nebraska.

 

[Glendower]

"The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program.

 

When NU was great back in the 90's what kind of NFL players did we have, NU didnt have All-Pro QB's or All-American WR(besides Irving Fryar). No we made our living on O-Linemen, and RB's on offense and then we would recruit great D-ends, LB, good cover corners, and ball hawking safeties. Callahan almost did the exact opposite and tried to get great QB's and WR's, which is not going to work cause those kids are going to the Floridas and USCs. I dont want to go back to 30 options a game and pounding the FB and RB, but NU needs to somewhat get back to their roots and go after the great O-Linemen, and RB's find a hidden gem to play QB(there is plenty of those in TX-Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing), not a NFL prototype. Then focus on defensive recruiting."

 

 

 

I think that is one of the best points I have heard about Nebraska's sitaution. I couldn't agree more. If you can recruit the linemen, running backs and defensive players, you don't have to have a NFL quarterback to win at the college level. It will always be hard to get the next Joe Montana to come to Nebraska.

 

I think you picked the wrong guy for your analogy there-- the Joe Montanas are exactly the kinds of QBs we'll have to try to find because the other schools won't be looking for them.

[Cy the Cyclone]

"The real great football kids want a chance to play in the NFL, and right now, Nebraska is not that kind of program.

 

When NU was great back in the 90's what kind of NFL players did we have, NU didnt have All-Pro QB's or All-American WR(besides Irving Fryar). No we made our living on O-Linemen, and RB's on offense and then we would recruit great D-ends, LB, good cover corners, and ball hawking safeties. Callahan almost did the exact opposite and tried to get great QB's and WR's, which is not going to work cause those kids are going to the Floridas and USCs. I dont want to go back to 30 options a game and pounding the FB and RB, but NU needs to somewhat get back to their roots and go after the great O-Linemen, and RB's find a hidden gem to play QB(there is plenty of those in TX-Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing), not a NFL prototype. Then focus on defensive recruiting."

 

 

I think that is one of the best points I have heard about Nebraska's sitaution. I couldn't agree more. If you can recruit the linemen, running backs and defensive players, you don't have to have a NFL quarterback to win at the college level. It will always be hard to get the next Joe Montana to come to Nebraska.

 

 

I think you picked the wrong guy for your analogy there-- the Joe Montanas are exactly the kinds of QBs we'll have to try to find because the other schools won't be looking for them.

 

Just remember that for every Joe Montana out there, there are 10 Dave Kreigs or Ken Andersons who end up laboring away at some little college like Milton or Augustana. If we can continue to find those guys...the one's that get passed over by the "BIG QB/NFL COMBINE" schools just because they aren't playing in the football recruiting hotbeds of the US, I'll be more than satisfied.