Tackle football: showdown in Lincoln could determine nation’s best DT

[carlfense]

bump for Crick edit

[In the Deed the Glory]

Another comment:

 

"Gerald McCoy is testimony to the virtue of spending four years in college, before going to the NFL. Nobody in the NFL has had more fun the past two years than Gerald McCoy has had on campus. He's one of the greatest kids to come through the program. While I hope and expect him to have a long and dominant NFL career, I am glad that he chose to fulfill the four years of his scholarship."

 

um, so is Suh. one of the better testaments to the virtue of spending 4 years in college due to the fact that he was a guaranteed top 10 pick in last year's NFL draft. I'm sure McCoy was too, but give Suh some credit here.

 

I definitely agree that only folks in Oklahoma would think McCoy is on the same level as Suh. Granted, i have not seen to much of McCoys play but I can almost be certain from watching Suh every week that noone is on his level. anywhere.

 

So the guy who made this original comment knows he is coming back next season then? I doubt he does. From OU's website:

 

93 McCoy, Gerald 6-4 297 DT JR Oklahoma City, Okla. (Southeast HS)

 

[irafreak]

Testimony to only OU fans can think McCoy is on Suh's level is the fact that so many people coming into the year had McCoy and Suh neck and neck on their better DT's, draftboards, etc... Now, almost EVERYONE has Suh ahead in that category. Bout all that needs to be said.

 

Yeah. There is no comparison.

 

McCoy - 19 Tackles (15 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 3.5 sacks, 9 hurries, 0 kicks blocked.

Suh - 49 tackles (28 solo), 7 pass breakups, 1 interception, 5 sacks, 9 hurries, 2 kicks blocked.

 

Looks like McCoy only has one tied stat. Suh is flat out DOMINANT. McCoy is just good.

 

Edit: Heck . . . even Crick has better stats than McCoy. That's almost embarrassing for OU fans now . . .

 

Crick - 49 tackles (22 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 8.5 sacks, 8 hurries, 1 kick blocked.

 

In summary: Carl/Bo Pelini are DL WIZZARDS. These guys can coach.

That's the conclussion I've come to.

[irafreak]

Another comment:

 

"Gerald McCoy is testimony to the virtue of spending four years in college, before going to the NFL. Nobody in the NFL has had more fun the past two years than Gerald McCoy has had on campus. He's one of the greatest kids to come through the program. While I hope and expect him to have a long and dominant NFL career, I am glad that he chose to fulfill the four years of his scholarship."

 

um, so is Suh. one of the better testaments to the virtue of spending 4 years in college due to the fact that he was a guaranteed top 10 pick in last year's NFL draft. I'm sure McCoy was too, but give Suh some credit here.

 

I definitely agree that only folks in Oklahoma would think McCoy is on the same level as Suh. Granted, i have not seen to much of McCoys play but I can almost be certain from watching Suh every week that noone is on his level. anywhere.

 

So the guy who made this original comment knows he is coming back next season then? I doubt he does. From OU's website:

 

93 McCoy, Gerald 6-4 297 DT JR Oklahoma City, Okla. (Southeast HS)

 

[HuskerfaninOkieland]

In summary: Carl/Bo Pelini are DL WIZZARDS. These guys can coach.

Glenn Dorsey can attest to that as well

[Crymsonsteel]

Testimony to only OU fans can think McCoy is on Suh's level is the fact that so many people coming into the year had McCoy and Suh neck and neck on their better DT's, draftboards, etc... Now, almost EVERYONE has Suh ahead in that category. Bout all that needs to be said.

 

Yeah. There is no comparison.

 

McCoy - 19 Tackles (15 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 3.5 sacks, 9 hurries, 0 kicks blocked.

Suh - 49 tackles (28 solo), 7 pass breakups, 1 interception, 5 sacks, 9 hurries, 2 kicks blocked.

 

Looks like McCoy only has one tied stat. Suh is flat out DOMINANT. McCoy is just good.

 

Edit: Heck . . . even Crick has better stats than McCoy. That's almost embarrassing for OU fans now . . .

 

Crick - 49 tackles (22 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 8.5 sacks, 8 hurries, 1 kick blocked.

 

In summary: Carl/Bo Pelini are DL WIZZARDS. These guys can coach.

Suh has 14 QB Hurries not 9

[clone]

Testimony to only OU fans can think McCoy is on Suh's level is the fact that so many people coming into the year had McCoy and Suh neck and neck on their better DT's, draftboards, etc... Now, almost EVERYONE has Suh ahead in that category. Bout all that needs to be said.

 

Yeah. There is no comparison.

 

McCoy - 19 Tackles (15 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 3.5 sacks, 9 hurries, 0 kicks blocked.

Suh - 49 tackles (28 solo), 7 pass breakups, 1 interception, 5 sacks, 9 hurries, 2 kicks blocked.

 

Looks like McCoy only has one tied stat. Suh is flat out DOMINANT. McCoy is just good.

 

Edit: Heck . . . even Crick has better stats than McCoy. That's almost embarrassing for OU fans now . . .

 

Crick - 49 tackles (22 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 8.5 sacks, 8 hurries, 1 kick blocked.

 

In summary: Carl/Bo Pelini are DL WIZZARDS. These guys can coach.

 

 

SUH and McCoy are both great linemen.

 

these stats have to be taken with a grain of reality salt. strength of schedule -- the opposition they have faced. (SOS).

 

DIFFERENT OPPONENTS, DIFFERENT SOS.

 

OU didn't have three sunbelt teams on their schedule.

 

OU plays a tougher schedule. A LOT tougher.

 

check the NCAA website:

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/tou...dule/tough.html

 

sorted on past opposition (teams played so far):

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/tou...9games_past.pdf

 

OU#10

NU#81

 

sorted on cumulative opposition (past and future opposition) evidently their schedule gets tougher, NUs gets slightly easier.

 

OU#2

NU#82

 

OOPS-- I forgot to include the FCS teams-

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/tou...9games_cumm.pdf

 

OU #18

NU #100

 

who you play means a lot.

 

[irafreak]

That's true but there are a lot more factors than that to consider. How good were the lineman they were playing, styles of offense the opposition uses, help at other positions, number of plays on defense...

[clone]

That's true but there are a lot more factors than that to consider. How good were the lineman they were playing, styles of offense the opposition uses, help at other positions, number of plays on defense...

 

you are trying to split hairs.

 

those arguments could be used by those dumb OU folks too in defense of McCoy.

 

However -- It is reasonable to think in general terms that higher rated teams have better players.

 

i.e. the offensive lineman for vatech is likely better than the lineman at fla atlantic.

 

another generality-- the defense for vatech is likely better than fla atl.

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

generally speaking nu should have a better shot at beating fla atl than say Oregon, or Alabama.

 

in other words, it stands to reason that suh OR mccoy would have a tougher day vs Alabama than fla atl.

 

make sense?

 

doesn't for ONE SECOND mean that suh isn't a great player.

 

he is!

 

but it does mean his stats come easier than mcCoys because they faced a different SOS.

[carlfense]

Testimony to only OU fans can think McCoy is on Suh's level is the fact that so many people coming into the year had McCoy and Suh neck and neck on their better DT's, draftboards, etc... Now, almost EVERYONE has Suh ahead in that category. Bout all that needs to be said.

 

Yeah. There is no comparison.

 

McCoy - 19 Tackles (15 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 3.5 sacks, 9 hurries, 0 kicks blocked.

Suh - 49 tackles (28 solo), 7 pass breakups, 1 interception, 5 sacks, 9 hurries, 2 kicks blocked.

 

Looks like McCoy only has one tied stat. Suh is flat out DOMINANT. McCoy is just good.

 

Edit: Heck . . . even Crick has better stats than McCoy. That's almost embarrassing for OU fans now . . .

 

Crick - 49 tackles (22 solo), 1 pass breakup, 0 interceptions, 8.5 sacks, 8 hurries, 1 kick blocked.

 

In summary: Carl/Bo Pelini are DL WIZZARDS. These guys can coach.

 

 

SUH and McCoy are both great linemen.

 

these stats have to be taken with a grain of reality salt. strength of schedule -- the opposition they have faced. (SOS).

 

DIFFERENT OPPONENTS, DIFFERENT SOS.

 

OU didn't have three sunbelt teams on their schedule.

 

OU plays a tougher schedule. A LOT tougher.

 

check the NCAA website:

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/tou...dule/tough.html

 

sorted on past opposition (teams played so far):

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/tou...9games_past.pdf

 

OU#10

NU#81

 

sorted on cumulative opposition (past and future opposition) evidently their schedule gets tougher, NUs gets slightly easier.

 

OU#2

NU#82

 

OOPS-- I forgot to include the FCS teams-

 

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/tou...9games_cumm.pdf

 

OU #18

NU #100

 

who you play means a lot.

 

 

Maybe. However I don't think that could entirely account for the statistical disparity. If the tackles were something like 30 to 19 I'd agree with you. 49 to 19 I can't.

 

(and Suh seems to turn it up a notch against better opponents.)

[knapplc]

While I believe Suh is better than McCoy, let's also remember that McCoy is a Junior while Suh is a Senior. Compare 2008 Suh to 2009 Suh.

 

If McCoy comes back next year he could be an absolute beast, just like Suh.

[clone]

Maybe. However I don't think that could entirely account for the statistical disparity. If the tackles were something like 30 to 19 I'd agree with you. 49 to 19 I can't.

 

(and Suh seems to turn it up a notch against better opponents.)

 

so suh turned it down a notch vs fla atlantic and the other creampuffs.

 

we can't change the fact that the NU sos is #100 per the ncaa, it is what it is.

 

but having said that, it provides the context under which the defensive stats are produced... for ou and nu.

 

like it or not.

 

btw-- suh isn't the whole defense. he is performing well above the rest of the good not great defense.

 

I would agree that suh is the better player.

 

now.. whether suh and mcCoy's stats nearly reverse if the #18 sos and #100 sos were reversed as well.

 

we'll never know.

 

 

 

 

GO BO!!

BEAT OU!!

[newenglandhusker]

While I believe Suh is better than McCoy, let's also remember that McCoy is a Junior while Suh is a Senior. Compare 2008 Suh to 2009 Suh.

 

If McCoy comes back next year he could be an absolute beast, just like Suh.

Some of Suh's stats from last year:

 

Total tackles: 76

Tackles for Loss: 19

Sacks: 7.5

 

I'm too lazy to dig up more but, ~halfway through the season, his numbers this year are pretty much on par. Both years are quite a bit different than McCoy's. Again, I'm not saying anything other than Suh's year this year is on par with his stats last year. They play in 2 different systems and have 2 different functions but if you are looking at those stats mentioned Suh is quite a bit ahead of McCoy.

[In the Deed the Glory]

Ndamukong Suh is (last that I saw, anyway) the number one overall player on both ESPN and SI's draft board. These boards include McCoy.

 

That says something.

[knapplc]

While I believe Suh is better than McCoy, let's also remember that McCoy is a Junior while Suh is a Senior. Compare 2008 Suh to 2009 Suh.

 

If McCoy comes back next year he could be an absolute beast, just like Suh.

Some of Suh's stats from last year:

 

Total tackles: 76

Tackles for Loss: 19

Sacks: 7.5

 

I'm too lazy to dig up more but, ~halfway through the season, his numbers this year are pretty much on par. Both years are quite a bit different than McCoy's. Again, I'm not saying anything other than Suh's year this year is on par with his stats last year. They play in 2 different systems and have 2 different functions but if you are looking at those stats mentioned Suh is quite a bit ahead of McCoy.

Numbers alone mean nothing. You have to put them in context. You have to know who each guy is facing, and how they do against the competition.

 

I would like to have either Suh or McCoy on my team. Both are pretty good. All things considered, I'd take Suh every time. All I'm saying is, don't be surprised to see McCoy spending a lot of time in our backfield tomorrow, and/or knocking down a lot of RBs.