It ain't ALL about talent

[NU fan in Denver]

Your right, we had talent on the teams. My point being is that we didn't recruit the "very top" talent. Many of those players were made into greats at NU with great coaching,

Also, back in the early 90's we had the most state of the art weight training and nutrition program in the world

, determination and hard work. If you can find the recruiting statistics let me know, but i would venture to say that NU didn't have a top 5 recruiting class in 92-97. They did however have great football teams. It didn't just happen overnight with an infux of newcomers, it was a gradual progression up the ladder of success. First it started with making bowl games which they did every year. Then they lost the NC to FSU. I think that was the turning point that lit the fire under the players a$$es. They knew that everyone had them as underdogs and they outplayed FSU for 58 minutes. I think that got them to realize that they can beat the "florida schools".

 

Just look at what Texas does every year. Mack Brown brings in some of the top tallent annually. They haven't won a NC with it yet.

 

My point being is that "recruiting the top talent" isn't necessarily the answer, recruiting the right talent is.

[StuckinChicago]

Just look at Tom Osborne. He brought in all that talent and didnt win a national title for 20 years. Lay off of Mack Brown. Not beating one school does not preclude him from being a great coach, nor does it say that talent doesnt win games. A rose bowl victory against Michigan sounds pretty good to me right now.

[huskerstag]

While its true that NU had great coaches in the 90s and we were developing our players in the weightroom and through conditioning better than anyone else, talent was still a huge part of the game.

 

As I remember, a big part of our transition from a 'paper tiger' or an 'also ran' was the fact that we brought in more speed on the defensive side of the ball. We played with FSU and then beat Miami and Florida partly because we finally had the speed to compete with them.

 

Saying we never had a top 5 or top 10 recruiting class back then is, IMO, bordering on apples to oranges. It seems recruiting has changed dramatically in the last 10 years alone. With internet sites, each one with dozens of analysts, and testing camps, elite camps, etc. the top players-talent wise-are well defined and its much more difficult to find the guys that are underrated or undervalued to bring into your system. It seems today that almost every D1 prospect has been looked at and evaluated a dozen times over.

 

I don't think that was the case 10 years ago, so while TO and co.'s classes may not have been ranked so highly by the 'experts', in reality they may have been just as good or better in terms of talent, it just wasn't as widely recognized.

[Pedro Guerrero]

Most of the people on here that mock Mack Brown for not winning a NC are the sameones that say Frankie should of had more time. Mack Brown is in the Top 10 almost every year. He has the third most wins in the last five years but since he doesn't win it all he stinks. But on the other hand Frankie won 9 games in 03 so he should of been allowed more time. Something doesn't add up.

 

If recruiting isn't the key then way has it worked out so well for USC? Or LSU? Miami? Florida State? Michigan? Tennesse? Should I keep going?

 

 

Oh yeah Bob Stoops is a tool anyway.

[formerfan]

Just look at Tom Osborne. He brought in all that talent and didnt win a national title for 20 years

.

 

Apples and oranges.

 

Lay off of Mack Brown. Not beating one school does not preclude him from being a great coach, nor does it say that talent doesnt win games. A rose bowl victory against Michigan sounds pretty good to me right now.

 

If I remember correctly, Mack has never even won the Big 12 title, so one Rose Bowl win is nice, but if UNDERACHEIVING with great talent is acceptable to you, then you should love what NUs current staff is going to do

 

Also, when talking about underachieving coaches, what about Ohio St.'s former coach from the 90's (cant remember his name) who annually put together top 10 recruiting classes, yet went something like 1-9-1 against Michigan, and couldnt win the big one???

[DJR313]

If you can find the recruiting statistics let me know, but i would venture to say that NU didn't have a top 5 recruiting class in 92-97. They did however have great football teams.

1992 28

1993 14

1994 20

1995 8

1996 4

1997 19

 

 

I got this from SI.com a while back. That is NU's recruiting ranks in the time period in question. Not exactly bottom of the barrell recruits, but I understand what you are getting at.

[NU fan in Denver]

If you can find the recruiting statistics let me know, but i would venture to say that NU didn't have a top 5 recruiting class in 92-97.  They did however have great football teams.

1992 28

1993 14

1994 20

1995 8

1996 4

1997 19

 

 

I got this from SI.com a while back. That is NU's recruiting ranks in the time period in question. Not exactly bottom of the barrell recruits, but I understand what you are getting at.

By no means is it the bottom of the barrel. Very above averge. Look at the recruiting ranks of the classes that contributed most to the 94 & 95 NC teams.

 

92 28

93 14

94 20

 

Definately not top 5.

 

On the other hand. the 97 NC team had some better recruiting classes,

 

95 8

96 4

 

Maybe that just goes to prove you have to have talent, but talent alone won't win it all.

Most of the people on here that mock Mack Brown for not winning a NC are the sameones that say Frankie should of had more time. Mack Brown is in the Top 10 almost every year. He has the third most wins in the last five years but since he doesn't win it all he stinks. But on the other hand Frankie won 9 games in 03 so he should of been allowed more time. Something doesn't add up.

 

If recruiting isn't the key then way has it worked out so well for USC? Or LSU? Miami? Florida State? Michigan? Tennesse? Should I keep going?

 

How did this discussion get Frankie involved. But if we want to go into that. Wasn't the reason we got rid of FS is because we didn't want to "gravitate towards mediocracy" and losing to the KSU's and Texas. It sounds like OU is to Texas what NU is to KSU and Texas, at least in the last 5 years. Not that I am or was a FS supporter, but if you compare winning %

 

Mack 70-19-0 .787

FS 58-19-0 .753

 

Conference titles

0

1

 

I guess it all comes down to whether you are happy being the brides maid, or if you want to be the bride.

[indianahusker]

Excellent points, guys. I once heard Oz say in a press conference that he didn't care about the recrruiting rankings. He really didn't. The reason he won so much was that he was able to get good players (with more speed in the 90's, as duly noted) who fit into the system. He developed those players better than anyone in the country, and moulded them into winners. Rarely did freshmen play, with a few exceptions (Touchdown Tommie, a few others), while other schools started freshmen right away. Why do you think it is such a big deal when a frosh starts at NU? Because it hasn't happened very much in the past.

The point is, Oz got what he saw as talent, not necessarily what others saw. He then developed this talent.

FS's problem was he was not able to take relatively talented players and develop them. They just didn't get any better from their freshman year to their senior year. While TO could make awesome players out of pretty good ones, FS couldn't...it cost him his job. He needed to have top-notch classes and players to win, players that were great from the get-go. He didn't get them (he tried to do it the way Oz did), and couldn't develop anyone that wasn't.

I think Oz was the last of his breed. You have to have the great kids who can contribute right away, like this staff has brought in. This is the 21st century, welcome to it, NU Football.

[Pedro Guerrero]

How did this discussion get Frankie involved.

 

My bad dude. I just get tired of people bashing Mack Brown and was trying to make a point.

 

For the record though Frankie was mentioned before my post.

[NU fan in Denver]

No biggie, I just get sick of the whole FS thing. The same arguements on either side get old. I personally thought he was a good coach, but will be the first to admit I was very critical of play calling and team performance. I don't think things should have gone down the way they did, but it IS over. He is gone. Lets move on together and support the current team and not dwell on the past.

 

I understand you were trying to make your point, and I was just trying to counter it. FS was probably mentioned before you, just like he is mentioned in probably 50% of the discussion threads, I just saw yours.

 

So back to the Talent issue. I think it is safe to say that NU is starting to acquire the more talented FB player. A couple more years of good recruiting and then excellent coaching, molding, leadership, and hard work and hopefully we will have ourselves a NC team.

[Benard]

so how come we didnt win any more with frank solich then guys? if its not about talent then how come damn near every team that doesnt have talent get killed by the ones that do?

go back and look my friend, frank's record is actually pretty darn impressive. He had one bad year in 7-7 and other than he did very well.

[Touchdown Tommie]

IMO some people keep bringing up Frankie like he was some sort of GOD. He was losing control of the team and what the program needed to do. He is gone and no matter how much we sit and say that getting rid of him after having 9 wins was so wrong and Pederson is the biggest a**, he isn't coming back. Good riddance! I am glad to have someone new and fresh lead NU into the next stage.

[formerfan]

I am glad to have someone new and fresh lead NU into the next stage.

Even if the next stage is the basement????????

[gamecocks]

Yawn!!!!!

[formerfan]

Yawn!!!!!