Texas just screwed the B12

[mnhusker]

oh goodie. now i can watch those little orange jump suits and tiny, disproportionately sized hats play the UT fight song on TV. over and over and over again.

 

 

god, why do you hate me?

 

God does not hate you, He just knows that, 'that which does not kill you makes you stronger makes you stronger.'

T_O_B

 

thats not entirely true. i like to compare this to swallowing a cup of bleach or drain cleaner. sure, you may survive, but its gonna hurt like hell and you'll have to eat through a tube for the rest of you're life.

 

Man that's harsh.

[VectorVictor]

why do people keep talking about Oklahoma barber college joining the B1G?

 

Because when you look at the balance sheet for Oklahoma, they potentially take away (read: can actually win the SEC football race) more than they bring in (they're program isn't as valuable as Nebraska's per Forbes, so-so basketball as of late, and lack of households since state is split).

 

Again--we're not just talking about football prowess or power--these conferences are programming a television channel for the conference, all while keeping the original fat cats happy.

 

Conversely, A&M provides three things Oklahoma cannot: recruiting doors into Texas, the Houston TV market, and a team that is a significant name (for whatever reason), but is not a consistent threat to LSU, 'Bama, or Florida. Plus, there are teams available in the Big East and ACC that would better serve the SEC's interests. They won't go to 13--they'll want even numbers, and I'm sure the SEC has a grocery list ready if/when A&M and $ Bill Byrne find their cojones (which explains the whole Ben Cotton scrum thing, I suppose...)

 

I'm not saying it's likely--just don't be shocked if Oklahoma is offered along with a Kansas or Missouri by the Big 10 should Big East expansion, for whatever reason, prove untenable or unavailable. Likewise, don't be shocked if Oklahoma is left out of SEC expansion.

 

And just remember that even though the Big 10 offers, it doesn't mean Oklahoma will accept--remember, these are the same folks that proudly and openly said they're hitching their schooner to Bevo's tailpipe.

[knapplc]

why do people keep talking about Oklahoma barber college joining the B1G?

 

Because when you look at the balance sheet for Oklahoma, they potentially take away (read: can actually win the SEC football race) more than they bring in (they're program isn't as valuable as Nebraska's per Forbes, so-so basketball as of late, and lack of households since state is split).

 

Again--we're not just talking about football prowess or power--these conferences are programming a television channel for the conference, all while keeping the original fat cats happy.

 

Conversely, A&M provides three things Oklahoma cannot: recruiting doors into Texas, the Houston TV market, and a team that is a significant name (for whatever reason), but is not a consistent threat to LSU, 'Bama, or Florida. Plus, there are teams available in the Big East and ACC that would better serve the SEC's interests. They won't go to 13--they'll want even numbers, and I'm sure the SEC has a grocery list ready if/when A&M and $ Bill Byrne find their cojones (which explains the whole Ben Cotton scrum thing, I suppose...)

 

I'm not saying it's likely--just don't be shocked if Oklahoma is offered along with a Kansas or Missouri by the Big 10 should Big East expansion, for whatever reason, prove untenable or unavailable. Likewise, don't be shocked if Oklahoma is left out of SEC expansion.

 

And just remember that even though the Big 10 offers, it doesn't mean Oklahoma will accept--remember, these are the same folks that proudly and openly said they're hitching their schooner to Bevo's tailpipe.

 

Oklahoma isn't an AAU school. Without that accomplishment they will never be invited to the Big 10.

[WYHusk]

why do people keep talking about Oklahoma barber college joining the B1G?

 

Because when you look at the balance sheet for Oklahoma, they potentially take away (read: can actually win the SEC football race) more than they bring in (they're program isn't as valuable as Nebraska's per Forbes, so-so basketball as of late, and lack of households since state is split).

 

Again--we're not just talking about football prowess or power--these conferences are programming a television channel for the conference, all while keeping the original fat cats happy.

 

Conversely, A&M provides three things Oklahoma cannot: recruiting doors into Texas, the Houston TV market, and a team that is a significant name (for whatever reason), but is not a consistent threat to LSU, 'Bama, or Florida. Plus, there are teams available in the Big East and ACC that would better serve the SEC's interests. They won't go to 13--they'll want even numbers, and I'm sure the SEC has a grocery list ready if/when A&M and $ Bill Byrne find their cojones (which explains the whole Ben Cotton scrum thing, I suppose...)

 

I'm not saying it's likely--just don't be shocked if Oklahoma is offered along with a Kansas or Missouri by the Big 10 should Big East expansion, for whatever reason, prove untenable or unavailable. Likewise, don't be shocked if Oklahoma is left out of SEC expansion.

 

And just remember that even though the Big 10 offers, it doesn't mean Oklahoma will accept--remember, these are the same folks that proudly and openly said they're hitching their schooner to Bevo's tailpipe.

 

Oklahoma isn't an AAU school. Without that accomplishment they will never be invited to the Big 10.

 

Yep. Okie U will never be allowed in a league that has Michigan, Northwestern, and is linked to the U of Chicago (obviously I'm talking academics here).

[VectorVictor]

why do people keep talking about Oklahoma barber college joining the B1G?

 

Because when you look at the balance sheet for Oklahoma, they potentially take away (read: can actually win the SEC football race) more than they bring in (they're program isn't as valuable as Nebraska's per Forbes, so-so basketball as of late, and lack of households since state is split).

 

Again--we're not just talking about football prowess or power--these conferences are programming a television channel for the conference, all while keeping the original fat cats happy.

 

Conversely, A&M provides three things Oklahoma cannot: recruiting doors into Texas, the Houston TV market, and a team that is a significant name (for whatever reason), but is not a consistent threat to LSU, 'Bama, or Florida. Plus, there are teams available in the Big East and ACC that would better serve the SEC's interests. They won't go to 13--they'll want even numbers, and I'm sure the SEC has a grocery list ready if/when A&M and $ Bill Byrne find their cojones (which explains the whole Ben Cotton scrum thing, I suppose...)

 

I'm not saying it's likely--just don't be shocked if Oklahoma is offered along with a Kansas or Missouri by the Big 10 should Big East expansion, for whatever reason, prove untenable or unavailable. Likewise, don't be shocked if Oklahoma is left out of SEC expansion.

 

And just remember that even though the Big 10 offers, it doesn't mean Oklahoma will accept--remember, these are the same folks that proudly and openly said they're hitching their schooner to Bevo's tailpipe.

 

Oklahoma isn't an AAU school. Without that accomplishment they will never be invited to the Big 10.

 

Eventually it won't matter. Some of the B1G's targets out east are non-AAU schools, and as I said before, they're programming for a network now--at some point, being an AAU member will be secondary or tertiary (if it isn't already) to bringing schools in, especially if expansion goes to 16 and becomes a collegiate 'cold war'.

 

Granted, the Big 10 may ask that non-AAU member schools get their academic/research **** together to eventually get AAU membership, but it won't be drop-dead requirement for further B1G expansion.

 

And, let's be honest here, if Nebraska was not an AAU member, does anyone really think that would had excluded us from receiving a Big 10 invite? If you do, well, then I'll tell you Nebraska has an excellent O-Coordinator.

[VectorVictor]

Yep. Okie U will never be allowed in a league that has Michigan, Northwestern, and is linked to the U of Chicago (obviously I'm talking academics here).

 

You are more than welcome to think this, but swap out Okie U for DoNU, and you have what Mizzou and 'Whorn fans told me as they laughed off my suggestion that Nebraska will receive a Big 10 invite well before Nebraska was even considered to be in the running.

 

Just sayin'.

[WYHusk]

Yep. Okie U will never be allowed in a league that has Michigan, Northwestern, and is linked to the U of Chicago (obviously I'm talking academics here).

 

You are more than welcome to think this, but swap out Okie U for DoNU, and you have what Mizzou and 'Whorn fans told me as they laughed off my suggestion that Nebraska will receive a Big 10 invite well before Nebraska was even considered to be in the running.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Okie is not in the AAU. End of story.

[VectorVictor]

Yep. Okie U will never be allowed in a league that has Michigan, Northwestern, and is linked to the U of Chicago (obviously I'm talking academics here).

 

You are more than welcome to think this, but swap out Okie U for DoNU, and you have what Mizzou and 'Whorn fans told me as they laughed off my suggestion that Nebraska will receive a Big 10 invite well before Nebraska was even considered to be in the running.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Okie is not in the AAU. End of story.

 

Wrong. Lack of AAU membership does not preclude an invite to the Big 10.

 

Otherwise, Notre Dame would have never received an unofficial invite (or, at the very least, heavy scrutiny benefiting a potential new member). And both Wake Forrest and UConn are potential expansion targets that were on the B1G short list during the first round of discussions and neither school is a member of the AAU.

 

Additionally, expansion into the South (per Delaney's mandate) would be tough if AAU membership were a requirement--see the map below and note the lack of AAU schools south of the B1G footprint:

 

 

Link

 

I doubt Delaney meant Vandy or Duke when he discussed expansion to southern schools.

[knapplc]

Eventually it won't matter. Some of the B1G's targets out east are non-AAU schools, and as I said before, they're programming for a network now--at some point, being an AAU member will be secondary or tertiary (if it isn't already) to bringing schools in, especially if expansion goes to 16 and becomes a collegiate 'cold war'.

 

Granted, the Big 10 may ask that non-AAU member schools get their academic/research **** together to eventually get AAU membership, but it won't be drop-dead requirement for further B1G expansion.

 

And, let's be honest here, if Nebraska was not an AAU member, does anyone really think that would had excluded us from receiving a Big 10 invite? If you do, well, then I'll tell you Nebraska has an excellent O-Coordinator.

 

The Big 10 Network is nice. It rakes in tens of millions of dollars for the conference. It's an important asset to the schools.

 

But the revenue from the BTN pales in comparison to the lion's share of the $1.4 Billion (with a "B") in grant monies these schools rake in annually thanks to their collective academic standing. There is zero chance they jeopardize their grant revenue to acquire a larger TV footprint.

[WYHusk]

Yep. Okie U will never be allowed in a league that has Michigan, Northwestern, and is linked to the U of Chicago (obviously I'm talking academics here).

 

You are more than welcome to think this, but swap out Okie U for DoNU, and you have what Mizzou and 'Whorn fans told me as they laughed off my suggestion that Nebraska will receive a Big 10 invite well before Nebraska was even considered to be in the running.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Okie is not in the AAU. End of story.

 

Wrong. Lack of AAU membership does not preclude an invite to the Big 10.

 

Otherwise, Notre Dame would have never received an unofficial invite (or, at the very least, heavy scrutiny benefiting a potential new member). And both Wake Forrest and UConn are potential expansion targets that were on the B1G short list during the first round of discussions and neither school is a member of the AAU.

 

Additionally, expansion into the South (per Delaney's mandate) would be tough if AAU membership were a requirement--see the map below and note the lack of AAU schools south of the B1G footprint:

 

 

Link

 

I doubt Delaney meant Vandy or Duke when he discussed expansion to southern schools.

 

Hmmm, interesting. But I would suggest that perhaps the reason that Wake and UConn ultimately didn't make the cut was because of the lack of AAU ties.

 

As for ND, 1) my understanding is they're desperately trying to get into the AAU; 2) they're ND.

 

Okie is not on the level of ND, in terms of cachet - though of course they are superior in football. Not sure that Okie brings much of anything that the B1G is looking for, actually.

 

Where did Delaney say the B1G was looking south? Seems like I remember that, but got a linky? Are you saying that the B1G would poach someone from the ACC or the Big East? (Because it goes without saying that no one is leaving the SEC.)

[knapplc]

Here's an article from last May about the AAU and Big 10 expansion:

 

Big Ten expansion talk raises AAU profile

 

Few sports fans even know what it is, yet it could hold the key to Big Ten expansion.

 

The Association of American Universities is a a nonprofit, invitation-only collection of public and private research universities. Because all 11 current Big Ten schools are AAU members, many believe any universities asked to join an expanded Big Ten would likely be among the AAU's 63 member institutions.

 

Many of the schools most often mentioned as expansion candidates -- Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Texas, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Georgia Tech -- are AAU members.

 

"I think that's a priority for us, to make sure if we expand (to) get teams that are AAU schools," Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said.

No one disputes that the Big Ten, which is in the process of an 18-month study of expansion, would undoubtedly seek like-minded new members if it does elect to grow.

 

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, speaking at the league's recent meetings in Chicago, acknowledged that membership in the AAU would be "very important" for prospective new conference members. Delany declined an interview request through a Big Ten spokesman on Friday.

 

Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon, a proponent of the Missouri Tigers joining the Big Ten, has cited the school's AAU affiliation as one of several positives in its favor.

 

So maybe AAU membership isn't strictly required, but in the case of Oklahoma, I get the impression it's an insurmountable barrier.

[WYHusk]

Eventually it won't matter. Some of the B1G's targets out east are non-AAU schools, and as I said before, they're programming for a network now--at some point, being an AAU member will be secondary or tertiary (if it isn't already) to bringing schools in, especially if expansion goes to 16 and becomes a collegiate 'cold war'.

 

Granted, the Big 10 may ask that non-AAU member schools get their academic/research **** together to eventually get AAU membership, but it won't be drop-dead requirement for further B1G expansion.

 

And, let's be honest here, if Nebraska was not an AAU member, does anyone really think that would had excluded us from receiving a Big 10 invite? If you do, well, then I'll tell you Nebraska has an excellent O-Coordinator.

 

The Big 10 Network is nice. It rakes in tens of millions of dollars for the conference. It's an important asset to the schools.

 

But the revenue from the BTN pales in comparison to the lion's share of the $1.4 Billion (with a "B") in grant monies these schools rake in annually thanks to their collective academic standing. There is zero chance they jeopardize their grant revenue to acquire a larger TV footprint.

 

This, again, from knapplc. Football bucks are chump change compared to all those juicy research and federal contracts. No way are they going to let Okie, or any other non-AAU member in, and put that $$$ at risk.

[VectorVictor]

Eventually it won't matter. Some of the B1G's targets out east are non-AAU schools, and as I said before, they're programming for a network now--at some point, being an AAU member will be secondary or tertiary (if it isn't already) to bringing schools in, especially if expansion goes to 16 and becomes a collegiate 'cold war'.

 

Granted, the Big 10 may ask that non-AAU member schools get their academic/research **** together to eventually get AAU membership, but it won't be drop-dead requirement for further B1G expansion.

 

And, let's be honest here, if Nebraska was not an AAU member, does anyone really think that would had excluded us from receiving a Big 10 invite? If you do, well, then I'll tell you Nebraska has an excellent O-Coordinator.

 

The Big 10 Network is nice. It rakes in tens of millions of dollars for the conference. It's an important asset to the schools.

 

But the revenue from the BTN pales in comparison to the lion's share of the $1.4 Billion (with a "B") in grant monies these schools rake in annually thanks to their collective academic standing. There is zero chance they jeopardize their grant revenue to acquire a larger TV footprint.

 

This, again, from knapplc. Football bucks are chump change compared to all those juicy research and federal contracts. No way are they going to let Okie, or any other non-AAU member in, and put that $$$ at risk.

 

Again, concessions can be and have been made re: AAU membership. Admitting a non-AAU member or a member with little to no research arm is not going to jeopardize the existing grant money.

 

If anything, a new member that is non-AAU just simply will not participate with the existing AAU members in pooling resources to obtain grant money and collaborate on research. The University of Chicago has not fielded any sort of athletics since the 50s IIRC--I don't see people saying they are any less a member of the Big 10. Not everyone has to participate equally to join, and there's existing precedent as such.

 

And I agree that the research money handily trumps athletic money and that the Big 10 would do nothing to jeopardize that cash cow. But athletics have been a public face to generate exposure for a conference and a school--and with the advent of conference-run channels, it's a 24/7 PR machine that needs new/original content to feed it.

 

Again, I've never insisted that Oklahoma is a "Plan A" or even a "Plan B" for the Big 10. But if the B1G is spurned by the Big East and ACC schools (quite possible), that also means no Notre Dame (as they still have a home for Olympic sports), and that leaves the nebulous "southern schools" that Delaney mentioned and easy pickin' Big XII-II fruit. If you were Jim and 1) had to select from the Big XII-II leftovers, 2) you had to program entertainment for a network, and 3) had to keep a contiguous footprint, who would you take between MU, KU, KSU, OSU, and OU?

 

Also, for the person that asked for it, here's an article from mid 2010 where Jim Delany discussed "southern expansion": Link

[knapplc]

The interesting thing about that article is that there are no quotes of Delany saying the Big 10 wants to expand south. It seems to extrapolate from Delany's broad statements about the Big 10 being aware of population shifts to the south, but it doesn't specifically say - and I've googled a bit and can't find this - that Delany wants to actually acquire a southern school.

 

Concomitant to those statements about southern expansion is a direct quote from Delany stating the Big 10 doesn't want a championship game. I'm thinking maybe Mr. Delany was talking out of his posterior a bit.

 

These articles are all dated 25 days prior to Nebraska joining the Big 10. Maybe they're just to throw people off the trail of what the Big 10 was really doing.

[WYHusk]

Yeah, I don't remember ever seeing anything that Delany said that the B1G had to have a southern school.

 

And, Matthew, you've got it backwards with regards to the U of Chicago - as is stated above, sports and football are a mere adjunct to the big dollars of research that AAU / B1G affiliation brings, and so, the U of Chicago is a far bigger fish than Okie can ever hope to be. It's not really a valid comparison.

 

Also, your geography is suspect. If the B1G is to keep a continguous footprint, Okie does not help. Unless you also bring in MU and / or KU. Which sort of defeats your argument.

 

Also possible: the B1G stands pat in the next round of conference realignment.

 

A better get for the B1G: TXass. I don't see that happening, but it's a lot more likely than Okie.