Carr,Price,Smith > Martinez

[tschu]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

A) That's not what he is suggesting at all

 

B ) We all remember Crouch for his Senior season. Taylor is a sophomore and his ability is comparable to where Crouch was as a sophomore. I am struggling mightily to resist the urge to post a mean-sounding comment in response to posts like this.

[beanman]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

 

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

 

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

 

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

 

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

 

Alright Knapp, you keep harping on this all the time about him being on equal footing passing-wise, so I'm just going to pose this question to you.... If you are down in the 4th quarter and have to drive 80 yds with just a few minutes left(a passing situation) would you rather have Taylor or Scott Frost? Taylor or Tommie? Taylor or Crouch? Taylor or Ganz? Because I'd take all the others every time. And yes, I'd take Crouch as a sophomore over Taylor.

 

We've only seen Taylor as a sophomore for 4 games, but at this point I'd take Taylor over any of those other guys but for Frazier. And maybe that will be proven wrong, but Frazier nearly led his team to a national championship to a sophomore - a player like him is extremely rare.

 

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

 

Might be good to take your own advice.

 

Crouch was a marginal passer too and as a soph I sure don't know if he could do those toss sweeps as well as Tmart Maybe not as a senior either. They're both rocket ships. Tmart has fumble issues that Crouch didn't but Tmart is easily better with ball handling. It's a close call and we'll know more after this year

 

Based on what? Where do you come up with this sh#t? Don't know if he could do thos toss sweeps as well as Tmart? You must be joking.

[beanman]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

A) That's not what he is suggesting at all

 

B ) We all remember Crouch for his Senior season. Taylor is a sophomore and his ability is comparable to where Crouch was as a sophomore. I am struggling mightily to resist the urge to post a mean-sounding comment in response to posts like this.

 

Crouch was solid as a sophomore and we won the Big 12 that year. Be mean all you want, I really don't care. I just don't see how any of you can be critical of Crouch and honestly say that you'd rather have Martinez as a sophomore than Crouch as a sophomore.

[Hercules]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

 

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

 

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

 

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

 

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

 

Alright Knapp, you keep harping on this all the time about him being on equal footing passing-wise, so I'm just going to pose this question to you.... If you are down in the 4th quarter and have to drive 80 yds with just a few minutes left(a passing situation) would you rather have Taylor or Scott Frost? Taylor or Tommie? Taylor or Crouch? Taylor or Ganz? Because I'd take all the others every time. And yes, I'd take Crouch as a sophomore over Taylor.

 

We've only seen Taylor as a sophomore for 4 games, but at this point I'd take Taylor over any of those other guys but for Frazier. And maybe that will be proven wrong, but Frazier nearly led his team to a national championship to a sophomore - a player like him is extremely rare.

 

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

 

 

I don't think Crouch was even a starter by this point of his sophomore year. So, you quit the drugs.

[bshirt]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

 

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

 

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

 

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

 

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

 

Alright Knapp, you keep harping on this all the time about him being on equal footing passing-wise, so I'm just going to pose this question to you.... If you are down in the 4th quarter and have to drive 80 yds with just a few minutes left(a passing situation) would you rather have Taylor or Scott Frost? Taylor or Tommie? Taylor or Crouch? Taylor or Ganz? Because I'd take all the others every time. And yes, I'd take Crouch as a sophomore over Taylor.

 

We've only seen Taylor as a sophomore for 4 games, but at this point I'd take Taylor over any of those other guys but for Frazier. And maybe that will be proven wrong, but Frazier nearly led his team to a national championship to a sophomore - a player like him is extremely rare.

 

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

 

Might be good to take your own advice.

 

Crouch was a marginal passer too and as a soph I sure don't know if he could do those toss sweeps as well as Tmart Maybe not as a senior either. They're both rocket ships. Tmart has fumble issues that Crouch didn't but Tmart is easily better with ball handling. It's a close call and we'll know more after this year

 

Based on what? Where do you come up with this sh#t? Don't know if he could do thos toss sweeps as well as Tmart? You must be joking.

 

Do you ever even watch Crouch play at NU?

[It'sNotAFakeID]

What I'm trying to get at is that Martinez gives this offense the best chance to win and is a good match for the system we're trying to run.

 

And he is a legitimate threat to take it to the house every single time he touches the ball. That's a hell of a weapon to bench simply because he's not a traditional pocket passer.

 

Exactly. It just really gets me to see people finding faults in every QB or player we start. I know they're [the problems] are there, but with Taylor there is so much more upside and he is showing more and more competence each game under the QB position. The way people are talking about him it seems like he should be the 4th string QB.

[NEBRASKANHEAT]

But he's continuing to look like the worst QB on the field vs just about every opposing QB we've faced.

I seriously have no idea what game you guys are watching.

 

Other QBs might be better passers. That isn't what Martinez is, so don't judge him as such. He is a better playmaker than any QB we've faced, and a better playmaker than most we will face all season (exceptions maybe in Robinson and Wilson). His pocket passing isn't good. But his passing isn't the reason he's the starter.

 

 

If he can continue to play like he has up until this year, against the defenses we will face, of course I'd be happy with his play. But I don't think he will. He needed to add a dimension to his game to beat the better defenses. We witnessed that last year.. Be it accuracy (not easy to improve) or, better judgement and pocket presence (where I am most disapointed that he hasn't improved). He needed to add something to take this team to the next level. I just don't think he has.

[beanman]

Stats are meaningless to me. And you can say that Frost needed a miracle, but keep in mind the play previous to the miracle play as well as the miracle play itself, our receivers were getting mauled before the ball got there and he actually put it right on the money two straight plays after leading us down the field. And he had the ugliest throwing motion of them all(except for Taylor). All I want is for him to play smart, not throw into triple coverage, take care of the football. But I have yet to see it despite what some folks say. Just because some of our other QBs didn't get the opportunity to shift to a passing mode doesn't mean that they weren't equipped to make some plays. At least we would have had a shred of hope. Right now, my feeling is the same as it was during the last drive in the A&M game last year: game over.(yes I know it was Cody but would have been same result with Taylor, healthy or injured).

 

If you're old enough to have solid memories of those QBs, you're old enough to know why Martinez isn't to be judged on his passing game the way Ganz or Zac Taylor or Zac Lee was. They aren't the same QBs, not the same offense, not the same philosophy, etc.

 

Yes, Martinez has improved. That's not me saying that, that's Bo, that's sportswriters in both the LJS and OWH, that's guys on the BTN, etc. Is he a finished product? Absolutely not. But he's getting better, and he's still just a sophomore.

 

You are absolutely correct in that he should not be throwing into coverage, or missing wide open receivers, or fumbling. But if you're old enough to remember the 90s, you'll remember that Frazier had the exact same problems. Exactly the same, including the fumbles. You'll remember the phrase, "Carrying the ball like a loaf of bread," which always seemed silly to me, but which was said about Frazier about every week, because he put the ball on the ground so many times - and that was even as a Senior.

 

A&M last year really has no bearing on this conversation - Cody is gone, and Martinez was badly injured and really shouldn't have even been playing. And he was a Freshman. There's just so many reasons why that's a horrible benchmark that it's not worth bringing up.

 

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

 

Which Crouch are we talking about? Heisman Trophy Crouch, or Sophomore Crouch? Because Sophomore Crouch had only started his first game by this point. He was buried behind Bobby Newcombe in the depth chart as a Sophomore, if you recall.

 

You're going to have to provide his fumble number to me from 95 because I've rewatched many of those games 10 times and I don't recall this rash of fumbles you speak of.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

A) That's not what he is suggesting at all

 

B ) We all remember Crouch for his Senior season. Taylor is a sophomore and his ability is comparable to where Crouch was as a sophomore. I am struggling mightily to resist the urge to post a mean-sounding comment in response to posts like this.

 

Crouch was solid as a sophomore and we won the Big 12 that year. Be mean all you want, I really don't care. I just don't see how any of you can be critical of Crouch and honestly say that you'd rather have Martinez as a sophomore than Crouch as a sophomore.

 

I don't think people are saying that. So what if we win the B1G this year, will you say the same things about Taylor, or is he still going to suck? We don't win because of one player, we win because of a team so we can't use conference victories to compare players.

[knapplc]

Crouch was solid as a sophomore and we won the Big 12 that year. Be mean all you want, I really don't care. I just don't see how any of you can be critical of Crouch and honestly say that you'd rather have Martinez as a sophomore than Crouch as a sophomore.

 

Crouch was playing behind a VASTLY better offensive line. This is like asking if you'd like Patton or MacArthur to general your troops - but oh by the way, if you choose MacArthur I'm going to throw in 150 tanks on the side. It's just not a fair comparison.

[krc1995]

it's also not fair to compare Tmart to QBs of the past. Those other QBs had a better supporting cast. Now, the receivers are a coming along and I think the line may end up as a not too bad o-line, but in no way is this years line comparable to what Frazier, Frost, or Crouch was blessed with.

[bulletbait]

Martinez has a long way to go before I'll think that he should be our starting QB. And that's not saying that I think Carnes is amazing. I just think that Taylor has reached his limit as a QB. I'm sick of hearing "he's a Sophomore." That's 3 years in the program. He should know how to properly read a zone-read. Burkhead can, no problem. He should know not to speed up and drift out on an option right before he realizes that he can't get past him, thus breaking the pitch relationship and getting stuffed for a loss or short gain. READ the defender's motion and keep or pitch. Very, very simple. And for the love of all that is holy, hire a QB coach with that family money. He wants to be a QB? Prove it! No excuse for me to have a better throwing motion than Martinez. I only ever played OLine. If Martinez could clean up that ugly motion, he'd find that his passes suddenly stop floating a yard or two behind his receiver.

 

At this point in time, if I had some magical power to control the football program, I'm moving Martinez to WR and sliding Carnes into the lineup. If Martinez still can't spot a wide open checkdown receiver (Abdullah, Legate, others I'm sure), I'll take the next guy in line, please. Use that speed to open up the field and clean up those running lanes.

[bshirt]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

A) That's not what he is suggesting at all

 

B ) We all remember Crouch for his Senior season. Taylor is a sophomore and his ability is comparable to where Crouch was as a sophomore. I am struggling mightily to resist the urge to post a mean-sounding comment in response to posts like this.

 

Crouch was solid as a sophomore and we won the Big 12 that year. Be mean all you want, I really don't care. I just don't see how any of you can be critical of Crouch and honestly say that you'd rather have Martinez as a sophomore than Crouch as a sophomore.

 

I don't think people are saying that. So what if we win the B1G this year, will you say the same things about Taylor, or is he still going to suck? We don't win because of one player, we win because of a team so we can't use conference victories to compare players.

 

You just flew over the hater's heads with that.

 

Crouch didn't have an Oline within 10,000 miles of the mid 90's pipeline but it was still massively better than what we have now. Also, to compare say the 1999 defense with this one so far is only laughable (at best).

 

Nevertheless, any loss this year will be Tmart's fault and nothing will change their minds.

[beanman]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

 

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

 

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

 

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

 

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

 

Alright Knapp, you keep harping on this all the time about him being on equal footing passing-wise, so I'm just going to pose this question to you.... If you are down in the 4th quarter and have to drive 80 yds with just a few minutes left(a passing situation) would you rather have Taylor or Scott Frost? Taylor or Tommie? Taylor or Crouch? Taylor or Ganz? Because I'd take all the others every time. And yes, I'd take Crouch as a sophomore over Taylor.

 

We've only seen Taylor as a sophomore for 4 games, but at this point I'd take Taylor over any of those other guys but for Frazier. And maybe that will be proven wrong, but Frazier nearly led his team to a national championship to a sophomore - a player like him is extremely rare.

 

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

 

 

I don't think Crouch was even a starter by this point of his sophomore year. So, you quit the drugs.

 

His sophomore year was 1999. He started all but the first 2 games. So I guess you should quit the drugs. And aren't you just proving my point, that he was still better with no starting experience than Martinez is with an entire year under his belt??

[tschu]

So if Martinez as a sophomore isn't better than Crouch, that means he's an awful QB? I seriously don't understand some of you people.

 

 

I'm so sick of this.

 

I stand in teh student section week after week and listen to this kind of bitching and hating on Taylor

 

 

Walking around campus and hearing people calling for Carnes to start... God, if there's one thing i hate, it is pure stupidity and this fanbase has more than enough of it to go around.