"Not a true Christian"

[Husker_x]

So, after all that, "If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?"

 

Heaven?

 

Just...just guessing.

 

I don't think that's right. I don't think that's possible. If it were, why wouldn't an Omnipotent God have just put the sons and daughters he loves there in the first place?

 

Sorry, pal, I'm not upper management. I'm not even middle management. Hell, I don't even work for the company.

[Husker_x]

If Adam and Eve were not mentally infantile, then surely they were capable of reasoning. If they were warned that eating the apple would result in horrible punishment by a being that surely came across to them as authoritative, then what logical motivation to eat the apple could've there possibly been?

 

You're assuming the author of the fable intended any kind of psychological realism. The story doesn't make any sense on any level. The idea that eating a piece of fruit would grant you the knowledge of good and evil creates a kind of paradox--you can't know what you're doing is wrong until you do wrong thing which would imbue you with the understanding it was wrong in the first place. Someone telling you something is 'evil' has no meaning when you have no concept of good and evil. Hence, the story is ridiculous.

[knapplc]

So, after all that, "If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?"

 

Heaven?

 

Just...just guessing.

 

I don't think that's right. I don't think that's possible. If it were, why wouldn't an Omnipotent God have just put the sons and daughters he loves there in the first place?

 

Sorry, pal, I'm not upper management. I'm not even middle management. Hell, I don't even work for the company.

 

I keep calling the hotline trying to get an answer to this question, but I've been on hold for a while. Maybe someone will help me at some point. I appreciate the effort at customer service, even if you do work for another company.

[Hammerhead]

If Adam and Eve were not mentally infantile, then surely they were capable of reasoning. If they were warned that eating the apple would result in horrible punishment by a being that surely came across to them as authoritative, then what logical motivation to eat the apple could've there possibly been?

 

The story doesn't make any sense on any level.

 

The more I think about it, the more I agree with that statement.

[Sub-Husker]

1. Jesus was the Son of God in the sense that is a part of the trinity and became man. We are all God's children in that he created mankind!!

 

Other than the Trinity, we are in agreement.

 

2. The God that Jesus talks to and honors as his father.

 

Which god of the Old Testament... there are two distinctly different ones. Does Jesus identify himself with El, or with YHWY?

 

3. Christ talked about a second coming so therefore he hasn't come yet because that is at teh end of days.

 

A "Second Coming" is not mentioned in the Bible. In Greek, it is described to be a "Triumphant Return" (of royalty).

 

Therefore it needs to be asked, had the Christ been here before the time of Jesus?

 

.

 

1. You either believe that Jesus is the Divine son of God and he came and died for your sins and rose again or you don't.

 

2. It is not a variable in the belief in Jesus. some may have some rough times in their lives and may say they lose faith but if they still believe in Jesus as the lord and savior that is the amount needed.

 

3. Yes, You must have faith to move a mountain. Jesus' point is we all lose faith that doesn't mean you lose eternity. You may not believe as much as you think but if you believe in the first sentence you will have everlasting life.

 

Nobody has faith beyond absolute certainty, and some people are flat-out wishy washy about it. Having faith is not a black or white characteristic. And some followers may have faith is a Jesus that differs from the standard Christian model.

[Sub-Husker]

So, after all that, "If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?"

 

As a more general answer from my pagan/shaman perspective, after we die our soul exists on a different plane of reality, outside of normal four dimensional space/time.

[Sub-Husker]

So, after all that, "If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?"

 

Heaven?

 

Just...just guessing.

 

Heh... the next obvious question is... where is that?

[Sub-Husker]

I don't think that's right. I don't think that's possible. If it were, why wouldn't an Omnipotent God have just put the sons and daughters he loves there in the first place?

 

God, throught the big bang or some similar process, created a new playground for us.

[johnnyrodgers20]

 

If God is omnipotent, then God knew they were going to do it.

 

Did he really give them a choice?

 

Just because he knows doesn't mean they didn't have a choice. no one forced them to eat it did they?

 

Actually, nobody forced God to put that tree there in the first place. What was the point of it even being there?

 

And, for that matter, why were Adam & Eve ever put in Earth in the first place? If God loves them and wants them to live with him in Heaven for eternity, why put them anywhere BUT Heaven?

 

 

I don't know why God put the tree there? How would I know what God was thinking? Why in the world did he make an egg laying Platypus?

[johnnyrodgers20]

If Adam and Eve were not mentally infantile, then surely they were capable of reasoning. If they were warned that eating the apple would result in horrible punishment by a being that surely came across to them as authoritative, then what logical motivation to eat the apple could've there possibly been?

 

You're assuming the author of the fable intended any kind of psychological realism. The story doesn't make any sense on any level. The idea that eating a piece of fruit would grant you the knowledge of good and evil creates a kind of paradox--you can't know what you're doing is wrong until you do wrong thing which would imbue you with the understanding it was wrong in the first place. Someone telling you something is 'evil' has no meaning when you have no concept of good and evil. Hence, the story is ridiculous.

How do you know they didn't know what "don't" meant? If they knew that then they knew not to do it.

[knapplc]

I think the very fact that the Tree was named "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" means they didn't know what they were getting themselves into prior to eating it. How could they, if they didn't truly understand Wrong?

 

But that is entirely beside the point. A loving parent doesn't put a child in a room with a loaded bear trap. The loaded bear trap never, ever, ever gets in the room. What the heck was it doing there?

[Hammerhead]

If Adam and Eve were not mentally infantile, then surely they were capable of reasoning. If they were warned that eating the apple would result in horrible punishment by a being that surely came across to them as authoritative, then what logical motivation to eat the apple could've there possibly been?

 

You're assuming the author of the fable intended any kind of psychological realism. The story doesn't make any sense on any level. The idea that eating a piece of fruit would grant you the knowledge of good and evil creates a kind of paradox--you can't know what you're doing is wrong until you do wrong thing which would imbue you with the understanding it was wrong in the first place. Someone telling you something is 'evil' has no meaning when you have no concept of good and evil. Hence, the story is ridiculous.

How do you know they didn't know what "don't" meant? If they knew that then they knew not to do it.

 

So again, I ask: why did they?

[Husker_x]

If Adam and Eve were not mentally infantile, then surely they were capable of reasoning. If they were warned that eating the apple would result in horrible punishment by a being that surely came across to them as authoritative, then what logical motivation to eat the apple could've there possibly been?

 

You're assuming the author of the fable intended any kind of psychological realism. The story doesn't make any sense on any level. The idea that eating a piece of fruit would grant you the knowledge of good and evil creates a kind of paradox--you can't know what you're doing is wrong until you do wrong thing which would imbue you with the understanding it was wrong in the first place. Someone telling you something is 'evil' has no meaning when you have no concept of good and evil. Hence, the story is ridiculous.

How do you know they didn't know what "don't" meant? If they knew that then they knew not to do it.

 

That's the hard part of trying to conceptualize the fable with modern standards of motivation in fictional characters. The real question is, How do you not have a knowledge of good and evil, and what does it feel like? My best guess for you is that if God says, "Adam, don't touch that. It's wrong." Adam may understand what don't touch means, but he doesn't have any concept of what 'wrong' means. So the initial command to not touch it doesn't come with any internal weight for Adam. There's no method of grasping what's 'wrong' about it, or why it matters that it's 'wrong.' Only after he touches does he understand why he shouldn't have done it.

 

I keep going back to the beginning though: the whole idea of this story is absurd. It's pretty clearly written as allegory, not history. The absurdity problem only comes in when you demand a literal fundamentalist reading of a story which includes a talking snake.

[johnnyrodgers20]

I think the very fact that the Tree was named "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" means they didn't know what they were getting themselves into prior to eating it. How could they, if they didn't truly understand Wrong?

 

But that is entirely beside the point. A loving parent doesn't put a child in a room with a loaded bear trap. The loaded bear trap never, ever, ever gets in the room. What the heck was it doing there?

I think we are going round in circles. You believe that God is fraudulant and I believe otherwise. God placed the tree there for a reason why only he would know. The humans knew not to eat of it and they chose to do so. Maybe evil was already in the world you know the devil had rebelled against God before the earth was made. So maybe the tree was made to hold the evil in and the eating of the fruit released it.

[knapplc]

We are going around in circles. To me it seems perfectly obvious that a loving, Omnipotent God has zero reason to ever create a place that is anathema to Him, then place "his children" whom he dearly loves in that place, with the hope that they believe enough to earn their way back to a place they should have been from the very beginning. We can quibble about the details of this or that part of the story, but bottom line, no sane, loving, logical parent would ever do what God has done. The story falls apart for me there.