"Not a true Christian"

[knapplc]

Very simple question: If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?

[zoogs]

....

 

I'd just like to remind anyone that personal attacks need to stay out of this board.

 

In case you do decide to return for some further last words, please keep in mind that you won't be able to post them for a week now.

[johnnyrodgers20]

2. The Dude, I like your analogy, but it only works if there is not, in fact, evidence of God. I hope you can understand that there is no such thing as objective evidence, there is only perception of evidence, and you can almost always take one observation and have two different people draw two entirely different conclusions from the same observation. That being said, I have seen a very large and wide-ranging amount of evidence towards the God of the Bible, both internal and external, both natural and supernatural.

 

I would disagree with that. Objective evidence is demonstrable...something that can be independently verified as testable and repeatable. An example: gravity. We have objective evidence that gravity is true. And unfortunately, quoting the Bible isn't evidence that a god is.

 

"If you're positing a god that can and does interact with reality, then there will be evidence for this (otherwise, how would you know any interaction had taken place). We can, and do, test psychics and investigate all sorts of supernatural claims.

If you're positing a god that doesn't interact with reality... why? That which doesn't manifest is indistinguishable from that which doesn't exist."

 

 

3. Hammerhead, if you're asking that question with Christianity in mind, the entire point of what Jesus taught is that we aren't good at all. We are worthless, and are incapable of doing good, and we need the forgiveness and sacrifice of a savior. So the answer to your question is no, you are not a good person, no matter what.

 

Which goes all back to "original sin." Again, NOT a worship-able trait to have as a god. That we are born sinful from the get-go. I don't care what a god says, if I had a child...from that moment that child came into this world, I would say that child is perfect in every absolute way.

 

No offense but you are simple human! You do no thave the power to form a tree or even a bacteria. Yet you think you are intelligent enough to understand God's grand scheme, very egotistical isn't it? God did put a perfect child into this world they chose to think they were smarter than God and decided to eat from the tree.

 

Same could be said if you were a parent of a teenager and you told them of the dangers of smoking crack. How addicting it is and the affects on your body. Even cigarettes, everyone knows the dangers that have been taught since they were little, yet millions ignore the warnings and eventually get addicted. Did you not warn your child and yet they defied you and will now pay the consequences!! Are you now a bad parent or you don't love your child?

[Landlord]

You know I wondered why Knappic as a moderator would give me a warning for slapping down a Wisconsin troll who posted " tear down Memorial stadium " and then removed a posting of mine that stood up for the NU Gray haired fans , who younger fans are now saying dont yell loud enough. In fact I was told I had STRIKE ONE.

But after reading this post by Knappic I NOW GET IT , Knappic is either an agnostic or an athiest. That explains alot ... As I am famous for sticking up for the bible and our Maker. I was wondering what I had done to get Knappics ire , and now I have figured it out. It just goes to show that ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

Oh well , I will let Knappic make Anti Christian statements like that , and let him lead his own life like he does , and I will lead my life through Christ , and that is good enough for myself.

I guess what it comes down to is on any board you post on , the mods have their perks and beliefs and instead of exchanging thoughtful talk about it , they cant hang with someone who shoots down their own views on life. Usually what I find is those on these boards who shoot down their own MAKERS rules on life , is that THEY LEAD AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE , THAT THE BIBLE AND OUR SOCIETY LOOKS AT AS PERVERSE. Isnt it funny that the ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE CROWD always finds so much wrong with the Bible and their MAKERS RULES , when actually it comes down to Gods and the Bibles views and rules as far as what is NATURAL AND WHAT IS PERVERSE ? Things that make you go hmmmm...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

So they group together on these websites and try and throw their own perverse lifestyle on others , WHO KNOW BETTER . What a punk ... Great Red One is moving on , hope you all have a great holiday season , and just remember , DONT TAKE THE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS .... Now go ahead and ban me or whatever makes your day Knappic , cause in the end , ( THE GREAT MODERATOR ) God will deal with you ...

DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER . Oh by the way , Knappic took down a posting of mine that basically said without any foul language that the Blue hairs that bought and paid for Memorial stadium and Husker football are now the ones some are saying should find other places to go . I said that the Blue hairs are responsible for Husker football AS IT IS TODAY , and that every positive thing that has happened to Husker football was a result of their patience and filling up memorial stadium before any of these young punks saw a football game in the 90s. I ended by saying , as far as Husker Football goes , LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Well , Knappic basically told me the same thing so my last words on this board are , I do love God , Family and Husker Football , and as far as LEAVE IT , I will leave the rest of you here with the ALTERNATE LIFESTYLES CROWD and every positive thing THAT WILL GET YOU .

GREAT RED ONE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING ..

 

 

 

 

[knapplc]

Very simple question: If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?

[Sub-Husker]

Very simple question: If you have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, where do you end up after Judgment Day?

 

Some important qualifiers to that qeestion:

 

1) A son of god, or the unique and only son of god?

 

2) Which god(s)... El, Yahweh, other(s)?

 

3) Will the Christ's return be His second coming, or has He been here before?

 

.

 

And about Faith:

 

1) Is Faith an either you have it or don't type thing, or can its amount vary?

 

2) If it's variable, how much is needed?

 

3) What size mustard seed (they come in various sizes) must faith be to be able to move a mountain?

[bennychico11]

No offense but you are simple human!

none taken. And so are you. You don't have any more knowledge of the supernatural than I do...even though you may claim you do.

You do no thave the power to form a tree or even a bacteria.

Well, technically I can by planting a seed or putting out a petri dish. But even so, you have yet to show evidence that a god can form these things either. Just because you don't know how something was formed does not mean the automatic answer is "god did it"

 

Yet you think you are intelligent enough to understand God's grand scheme, very egotistical isn't it?

Now it's a grand scheme? I thought we had freewill? I get confused as to what is god's will and what is freewill? It seems like you Christians go back and forth on that one

 

 

God did put a perfect child into this world they chose to think they were smarter than God and decided to eat from the tree.

Except (as stated earlier), Adam and Even didn't have the knowledge until AFTER eating of the tree of knowledge. So how would they have known right from wrong to begin with? But of course an omniscient god would have known this. And an all loving and just god wouldn't have punished all of humanity for eternity because of two ignorant humans. Let's take your example:

 

Same could be said if you were a parent of a teenager and you told them of the dangers of smoking crack. How addicting it is and the affects on your body. Even cigarettes, everyone knows the dangers that have been taught since they were little, yet millions ignore the warnings and eventually get addicted. Did you not warn your child and yet they defied you and will now pay the consequences!! Are you now a bad parent or you don't love your child?

Except in this situation, this child is mentally disabled. It doesn't know right from wrong. It can't know right from wrong. In it's mind those two things don't make sense. And you as a parent say "don't smoke cigarettes or you will die." Except when the child does smoke the cigarettes, they don't die like you said. They smoke it and you come back and say, "that's it! I'm going to kick you out of the house for forever for smoking cigarettes!" Now you've just kicked a mentally disabled kid out of your house, johnnyrodgers20!!!

Next I bet you'll make some rule that you'll only allow them back if they say they love you. But if they don't say they love you (and who would since you just kicked them out of the house), you're going to chain them up in your basement and torture them forever, huh??!!

 

 

 

All kidding aside, the cigarettes metaphor still all goes back to evidence. We have evidence that smoking causes health problems. And so we suggest that people do not do it if they want to live healthy. Still, people smoke. And some people live long and healthy lives smoking cigarettes. Some people smoke them when they are young and quit later on...and have no resulting problems from smoking in their youth.

The god of the Bible said that eating of the fruit would surely kill Adam and Eve....the serpent told them that that wasn't true...Adam and Eve didn't die. Now who was telling the truth?

[johnnyrodgers20]

No offense but you are simple human!

none taken. And so are you. You don't have any more knowledge of the supernatural than I do...even though you may claim you do.

You do no thave the power to form a tree or even a bacteria.

Well, technically I can by planting a seed or putting out a petri dish. But even so, you have yet to show evidence that a god can form these things either. Just because you don't know how something was formed does not mean the automatic answer is "god did it"

 

Yet you think you are intelligent enough to understand God's grand scheme, very egotistical isn't it?

Now it's a grand scheme? I thought we had freewill? I get confused as to what is god's will and what is freewill? It seems like you Christians go back and forth on that one

 

 

God did put a perfect child into this world they chose to think they were smarter than God and decided to eat from the tree.

Except (as stated earlier), Adam and Even didn't have the knowledge until AFTER eating of the tree of knowledge. So how would they have known right from wrong to begin with? But of course an omniscient god would have known this. And an all loving and just god wouldn't have punished all of humanity for eternity because of two ignorant humans. Let's take your example:

 

Same could be said if you were a parent of a teenager and you told them of the dangers of smoking crack. How addicting it is and the affects on your body. Even cigarettes, everyone knows the dangers that have been taught since they were little, yet millions ignore the warnings and eventually get addicted. Did you not warn your child and yet they defied you and will now pay the consequences!! Are you now a bad parent or you don't love your child?

Except in this situation, this child is mentally disabled. It doesn't know right from wrong. It can't know right from wrong. In it's mind those two things don't make sense. And you as a parent say "don't smoke cigarettes or you will die." Except when the child does smoke the cigarettes, they don't die like you said. They smoke it and you come back and say, "that's it! I'm going to kick you out of the house for forever for smoking cigarettes!" Now you've just kicked a mentally disabled kid out of your house, johnnyrodgers20!!!

Next I bet you'll make some rule that you'll only allow them back if they say they love you. But if they don't say they love you (and who would since you just kicked them out of the house), you're going to chain them up in your basement and torture them forever, huh??!!

 

 

 

All kidding aside, the cigarettes metaphor still all goes back to evidence. We have evidence that smoking causes health problems. And so we suggest that people do not do it if they want to live healthy. Still, people smoke. And some people live long and healthy lives smoking cigarettes. Some people smoke them when they are young and quit later on...and have no resulting problems from smoking in their youth.

The god of the Bible said that eating of the fruit would surely kill Adam and Eve....the serpent told them that that wasn't true...Adam and Eve didn't die. Now who was telling the truth?

 

Why does the child have to be mentally disabled? Adam and Eve were human beings and quite capable of thinking like a normal person.

 

No if they refuse to stop smoking the crack and are a danger to my house and other siblings then it would be my responsiblity to protect the other siblings from him/her. And how do you know that hell is the torture you envision. Many believe that hell is the separation from God. And that the pain and anguish is the lonliness that comes from not seein him.

 

 

Did Adam and Eve die?

[Sub-Husker]

Did Adam and Eve die?

 

I want to know what happened to Lillith.

 

And if they had unmarried sex, was that a sin?

[Husker_x]

You know I wondered why Knappic as a moderator would give me a warning for slapping down a Wisconsin troll who posted " tear down Memorial stadium " and then removed a posting of mine that stood up for the NU Gray haired fans , who younger fans are now saying dont yell loud enough. In fact I was told I had STRIKE ONE.

But after reading this post by Knappic I NOW GET IT , Knappic is either an agnostic or an athiest. That explains alot ... As I am famous for sticking up for the bible and our Maker. I was wondering what I had done to get Knappics ire , and now I have figured it out. It just goes to show that ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

Oh well , I will let Knappic make Anti Christian statements like that , and let him lead his own life like he does , and I will lead my life through Christ , and that is good enough for myself.

I guess what it comes down to is on any board you post on , the mods have their perks and beliefs and instead of exchanging thoughtful talk about it , they cant hang with someone who shoots down their own views on life. Usually what I find is those on these boards who shoot down their own MAKERS rules on life , is that THEY LEAD AN ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE , THAT THE BIBLE AND OUR SOCIETY LOOKS AT AS PERVERSE. Isnt it funny that the ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE CROWD always finds so much wrong with the Bible and their MAKERS RULES , when actually it comes down to Gods and the Bibles views and rules as far as what is NATURAL AND WHAT IS PERVERSE ? Things that make you go hmmmm...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

So they group together on these websites and try and throw their own perverse lifestyle on others , WHO KNOW BETTER . What a punk ... Great Red One is moving on , hope you all have a great holiday season , and just remember , DONT TAKE THE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS .... Now go ahead and ban me or whatever makes your day Knappic , cause in the end , ( THE GREAT MODERATOR ) God will deal with you ...

DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER . Oh by the way , Knappic took down a posting of mine that basically said without any foul language that the Blue hairs that bought and paid for Memorial stadium and Husker football are now the ones some are saying should find other places to go . I said that the Blue hairs are responsible for Husker football AS IT IS TODAY , and that every positive thing that has happened to Husker football was a result of their patience and filling up memorial stadium before any of these young punks saw a football game in the 90s. I ended by saying , as far as Husker Football goes , LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Well , Knappic basically told me the same thing so my last words on this board are , I do love God , Family and Husker Football , and as far as LEAVE IT , I will leave the rest of you here with the ALTERNATE LIFESTYLES CROWD and every positive thing THAT WILL GET YOU .

GREAT RED ONE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING ..

 

And people wonder why nonreligious people worry about the effects of religion...

 

 

Paul's statement that sin entered the world was stretched by Augustine to attribute all newly born infants with the sins of previous generations. That may be official church dogma, but I don't and can't buy into that.

 

Second, personally I have a major concern with the recognition of Saul/Paul as someone who has any authority to teach about Jesus, His spiritual nature, or what He considered to be sin.

 

I would agree with your second point, and remind you that I'm not a Christian. But when you deal with Christian dogma, you have to deal with it on their own terms--they see Paul as an authority on Jesus and interpreting the Old Testament. Paul preaches that through one man sin entered the world and infected every man, woman, and child, that 'in Adam all die'.

 

Personally I think the concept is cruel, unjust, and absurd. The idea that an all loving, all powerful deity would make a race of people born with the default-switch set to Hell bound, then make the only way of flipping that switch the torture and murder of a human being is horrible. But...people believe it anyway.

[bennychico11]

Did Adam and Eve die?

 

Eventually I guess. Adam lived something like 930 years?

But who's to say Adam wasn't going to die in the Garden of Eden too? How do we know god created Adam and Eve with the intention they live forever? That would probably become a pretty populated garden eventually anyway.

Also, god never said they'd die "eventually after 900+ years" from eating of the apple. He just said, "you shall surely die". That's like telling my kid "smoking of the cigarette will kill you"...then 80 years later when he dies of natural causes, saying "Ha! Told you!"

[johnnyrodgers20]

Did Adam and Eve die?

 

Eventually I guess. Adam lived something like 930 years?

But who's to say Adam wasn't going to die in the Garden of Eden too? How do we know god created Adam and Eve with the intention they live forever? That would probably become a pretty populated garden eventually anyway.

Also, god never said they'd die "eventually after 900+ years" from eating of the apple. He just said, "you shall surely die". That's like telling my kid "smoking of the cigarette will kill you"...then 80 years later when he dies of natural causes, saying "Ha! Told you!"

From all accounts i nthe bible Adam and eve were thought to be immortal. Today if God said you smoke and you will surely die and that is your only requirement and that evey want and need was taken care of and you knew you would live forever, would you smoke? They just defied God because they chose to do so.

[Sub-Husker]

I would agree with your second point, and remind you that I'm not a Christian. But when you deal with Christian dogma, you have to deal with it on their own terms--they see Paul as an authority on Jesus and interpreting the Old Testament. Paul preaches that through one man sin entered the world and infected every man, woman, and child, that 'in Adam all die'.

 

I had been a traditional Christian for much of my life, so I know and understand where the dogma comes from. It is important to know what comes from the Bible, and what comes from the various Doctors of the Church who came afterward? And if it came from the Bible, was it Old or New Testament? And if it was NT, was it gospel or epistle. If it was gospel, which one?

 

Personally I think the concept is cruel, unjust, and absurd. The idea that an all loving, all powerful deity would make a race of people born with the default-switch set to Hell bound, then make the only way of flipping that switch the torture and murder of a human being is horrible. But...people believe it anyway.

 

Paul was a Pharasee, and his goal was to spread Pharasital Judaism throughout the Roman Empire. But he say a Judea-centered religion with a main god who was for the most part a real dick as not having appeal to the average Roman citizen. Hence a new face with a new message was created. Paul's version of Jesus promised salvation and eternal life... if you had believed, sent money, and would put up with the empire while here on earth. And that worked.

[Sub-Husker]

Did Adam and Eve die?

 

I want to know what happened to Lillith.

 

And if they had unmarried sex, was that a sin?

 

I'm really hoping that someone takes a shot at this question!

[bennychico11]

From all accounts i nthe bible Adam and eve were thought to be immortal. Today if God said you smoke and you will surely die and that is your only requirement and that evey want and need was taken care of and you knew you would live forever, would you smoke? They just defied God because they chose to do so.

 

But again, how did they chose to if they had no concept of knowledge...no concept of right and wrong?

Can you give me a scripture reference from the bible that Adam and Eve were told they were to live forever?