State Department to reject Keystone XL application

[carlfense]

My father emailed me this link this morning. Not exactly the norm from Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.c...deal-all-along/

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

[krill]

My father emailed me this link this morning. Not exactly the norm from Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.c...deal-all-along/

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

 

You'll sometimes see a glimmer of hope on the Fox site, only to have it dashed reading the comments.

[gobiggergoredder]

Carl has this one nailed. This has become an issue right now for purely political capital. What is the price tag for this thing? $7 billion? Imagine what we could accomplish if we invested $7 billion in alternative energy research.

 

Probably nothing. All Gore might get another plane or two.

 

edit....We'd also see a lot more politicians on the payroll of 'Green Energy'.

[gobiggergoredder]

My father emailed me this link this morning. Not exactly the norm from Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.c...deal-all-along/

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

 

You'll sometimes see a glimmer of hope on the Fox site, only to have it dashed reading the comments.

 

I not trying to start anything here but Sally Kohn is a Lesbian, Community organizer, former chairperson of the Enviromental Grantmakers association that also contributes to MSNBC and the Huffington Post. I'm sure you have all looked at some of her previous work.

 

What did you think her opinion would be?

[carlfense]

My father emailed me this link this morning. Not exactly the norm from Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.c...deal-all-along/

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

 

You'll sometimes see a glimmer of hope on the Fox site, only to have it dashed reading the comments.

 

I not trying to start anything here but Sally Kohn is a Lesbian, Community organizer, former chairperson of the Enviromental Grantmakers association that also contributes to MSNBC and the Huffington Post. I'm sure you have all looked at some of her previous work.

 

What did you think her opinion would be?

Oh, god! A lesbian?!

 

I wasn't surprised by Kohn's views but rather that Fox News is publishing them.

[Sub-Husker]

I not trying to start anything here but Sally Kohn is a Lesbian, Community organizer, former chairperson of the Enviromental Grantmakers association that also contributes to MSNBC and the Huffington Post. I'm sure you have all looked at some of her previous work.

 

The correct one, despite her being a lesbian.

 

And why does that matter to you?

[krill]

I suppose, in fairness to gobiggergoredder, that if a strait, male, oil executive, who was the former chair of a climate change skeptic group, and regular contributer to WSJ and Fox Business were to post on DailyKos or HuffPo, he may be met with similar commentary. Listing sexual orientation first in the red flag list was a little amusing though.

[knapplc]

I suppose, in fairness to gobiggergoredder, that if a strait, male, oil executive, who was the former chair of a climate change skeptic group, and regular contributer to WSJ and Fox Business were to post on DailyKos or HuffPo, he may be met with similar commentary. Listing sexual orientation first in the red flag list was a little amusing though.

 

I agree. I don't think he meant any harm about the Lesbian thing. I think he was getting at the commonly-held belief that LBGT folks tend to be liberal, and she was cited by a conservative source. I don't think the intent was to point fingers at the gays.

[Sub-Husker]

I agree. I don't think he meant any harm about the Lesbian thing. I think he was getting at the commonly-held belief that LBGT folks tend to be liberal, and she was cited by a conservative source. I don't think the intent was to point fingers at the gays.

 

Unless they are Log Cabin Republicans, or Barney Frank obfuscating for his banker buddies with the toothless (pun intended) Dodd/Frank amendment.

[gobiggergoredder]

I suppose, in fairness to gobiggergoredder, that if a strait, male, oil executive, who was the former chair of a climate change skeptic group, and regular contributer to WSJ and Fox Business were to post on DailyKos or HuffPo, he may be met with similar commentary. Listing sexual orientation first in the red flag list was a little amusing though.

 

I agree. I don't think he meant any harm about the Lesbian thing. I think he was getting at the commonly-held belief that LBGT folks tend to be liberal, and she was cited by a conservative source. I don't think the intent was to point fingers at the gays.

 

Thank you knapp, I couldn't have said it better.

[krill]

Doesn't change the fact that the comments on foxnews.com stories are still the most hilarious mix of trolling, delirium, and assorted WTF? on the internet.

[VectorVictor]

In a nutshell...........it's about sacrificing 20,000 jobs to save ONE.................

 

Alright, thanks for the 'insightful' commentary there, Glenn Limbaugh.

 

Now, for some information that isn't regurgitated drivel originating from a grossly wrong Fox News talking point, the Keystone Pipeline is only going to create "no more than 2,500-4,650 temporary direct construction jobs for two years". This is according to TransCanada’s own data supplied to the State Department, as illustrated by the Cornell University study on this very subject:

 

http://www.ilr.corne...L_Reportpdf.pdf

 

I know there are a *lot* of words in this, so I'll try to help you and JohnnyRogers (really--it's only a matter of time, folks) out with this, as your derp is growing rather tiresome and every one of your political posts makes me lose an ounce more faith in humanity as a whole.

 

For one, there is no '$7-10 billion' dollars in investments to be made in the US by this. The true amount is approx. $3-4 billion--anything more than this is a lie of (willfull) ommission. Of note:

 

In other words, for the entire $13 billion Keystone project, $6.2 billion has already been spent to complete earlier phases of the project that are now in service. The entire budget for just the KXL project is $7 billion, but $1.7 billion of this has already been spent as of mid-year 2011. So remaining KXL spending (as of mid-year 2011) was only $5.3 billion in both US and Canada...

 

...only 77% of the KXL project costs are within the US. Thus, the remaining KXL spending within the US is now $4 billion.

 

So looking at what KXL has alloted for the project, minus what they've already spent, and multiplied by KXL's own percentage of U.S. expenditures on this project nets us the truth.

 

Plus, all of the derp about these being permanent, long-term jobs is bold-faced lies. Again, using KXL's own application to the State of Nebraska against them...

 

 

Total direct and indirect construction employment that will amount to about 5310 person- months of employment and an estimated $58 million in wages and salaries. This includes the Hardisty B terminal, pipeline and eight pump stations and their associated power lines... Construction is short term, workers’ families are not expected to move into the area and area medical facilities are adequate to deal with any on-the-job injuries.

 

And just to reinforce this, using TransCanada's own data provided to the State Department, the following (*TEMPORARY*) job creation by state breaks down as such:

 

Montana: 93 to 257 jobs

South Dakota: 121 to 333 jobs

Nebraska: 90 to 248 jobs

Kansas: 6 to 18 jobs

Oklahoma: 41 to 113 jobs

Texas: 156 to 470 jobs

 

Not only this, but the secondary job creation isn't there--we've all lamented that the steel industry has left the U.S. and went elsewhere (India, China, South Korea, Indonesia). The report goes on to mention that KXL already has much of the pipeline already procured, and what it doesn't have, it will likely use existing contracts with South Korea and India manufacturers to complete.

 

Also, everyone that regurgitates derp continues to underplay the value of the aquifer as TransCanada has 'assured' us that there will be no spills or impact. Bull****. In 2010, they had 31 spills--14 (reported) in the U.S., and 17 (reported) in Canada).

 

But don't take my word for it--instead, take the word of one a Dr. John S. Stansbury, who just happens to go to the school we root for in collegiate sports (and for some of us, our alma matter). Dr. Stansbury notes that

 

TranCanada’s claim that spills would be rare—just 11 significant spills over a 50 year period—was not consistent with the available historical data pertaining to pipeline spills (which point to a much higher spill rate).

 

Really, I'm tired of the 'baggers and their derp. In short, if you're going to try and defend this 'project', then do it with the correct data that came directly from TransCanada and KXL--not the derp that Fox News feeds you because you can't (or won't) concern yourself with the facts of this project.

 

And you know what, it won't happen--there's no sensible way to defend this project with the *actual* jobs, spending, and environmental data that has been made available.

 

(edit--spelling and spacing issues)

[Comish]

http://energytomorro...bers/#/type/all

[Comish]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/01/18/keystone-calamity

[knapplc]

The numbers in that energy tomorrow blog are such total BS. 20,000 new jobs? No.

 

17 spreads, 500 workers per spread - This is to presume that no workers will move from spread to spread. My wife's uncle has many years' experience constructing pipelines. His experience is that people tend to move down the line as the pipeline is created. These are not unique jobs, created for 8,500 people. There is a massive amount of overlap in that 8,500 number. It's total BS.

 

7,000 jobs in manufacturing the materials that will be used in the project - This is also to presume that the people involved in the manufacture of the parts and pieces are all to be hired specifically for this purpose. This is a false assumption. The contracts to make these parts and pieces are not going to be granted to companies who do not already have the capacity to produce the parts. We are not giving contracts to companies hoping they can hire qualified workers to fulfill those contracts. No company does this, and I would be aghast if the Keystone people did. It's stupid business.

 

That's just two very easy holes to poke into this "20,000" jobs number. It's total crap. Pretending that this pipeline is a jobs creator is political nonsense at its finest.