Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Israel is not innocent. The countries surrounding Israel are not innocent. /end thread it's nothing close to 50/50. That's what Israel wants us to believe..that way we just throw our hands up and do nothing to stop it. I didn't mean to imply that it was 50/50. Fair enough...but this is a subject that needs tons of sunlight...and it's great to see it's been a very civil discussion and even productive. No need to end it. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Where would you rate the Israeli occupation of Palestine on a list of current world atrocities? Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Where would you rate the Israeli occupation of Palestine on a list of current world atrocities? Current? IDK...I'm not up to speed on all of them. I'd guess top 3 if not #1. I'd look at the totality of them. Do you have any nominees? Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Israel's explanation for all of that is that they are responding, self-defense, etc. I see their point, but I agree with you that they go too far at times. I do not put much credence in that explanation. You are not legitimately defending yourself when you are occupying another people's land, preventing them from forming their own nation, occassionaly invading them, frequently embarking on military missions on their land, blockading them into an open-air concentration camp, and imprisoning thousands of their civilians without charge. Exactly...the Arabs are resisting and illegal and brutal occupation. ANY group in the world past or present would resist it. Including a religious group who was oppressed in the late 30s / early 40s in central Europe. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It is simply not true that Israel is ONLY being the aggressor. Israel did not wake up one day and decide to piss off all of its neighbors for no reason. I need some clarification... who is this strawman being addressed to? Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sub I don't think you know what a straw man is. This is at least the second time that I've seen you use this term incorrectly. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Where would you rate the Israeli occupation of Palestine on a list of current world atrocities? Just beneath the officiating of our 2010 game at Texas A&M. Seroiusly... there are worse attrocities happening throughout Asia, Africa and South America, and many of those regimes are being sponsored by external powers such as the US, Russia, China and EU. However this attrocity is being conducted by a western-style nation, which many in the US support for religious reasons. One of the worst attrocites that started last year was the NATO destruction and murder in Libya. And as an encore we're trying for the same thing in Syria. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sub I don't think you know what a straw man is. This is at least the second time that I've seen you use this term incorrectly. A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man It is simply not true that Israel is ONLY being the aggressor. Israel did not wake up one day and decide to piss off all of its neighbors for no reason. This is an example of a strawman, because nobody has said "Israel is ONLY being the aggressor", and the the implication that "Israel did not wake up one day and decide to piss off all of its neighbors for no reason" is a nonsensical assumption. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Cactus' assertion throughout this thread is that Israel is the aggressor. That's been pretty obvious since the OP. Thus, not a straw man. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Cactus' assertion throughout this thread is that Israel is the aggressor. That's been pretty obvious since the OP. Thus, not a straw man. Point taken... Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Cactus' assertion throughout this thread is that Israel is the aggressor. That's been pretty obvious since the OP. Thus, not a straw man. Yes Israel with the help of the US is the aggressor. I'm not saying groups like Hamas haven't done terrorism though. Link to comment
knapplc Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Cactus' assertion throughout this thread is that Israel is the aggressor. That's been pretty obvious since the OP. Thus, not a straw man. Yes Israel with the help of the US is the aggressor. I'm not saying groups like Hamas haven't done terrorism though. There is plenty of blame to go around. On all sides. Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Cactus' assertion throughout this thread is that Israel is the aggressor. That's been pretty obvious since the OP. Thus, not a straw man. Yes Israel with the help of the US is the aggressor. I'm not saying groups like Hamas haven't done terrorism though. There is plenty of blame to go around. On all sides. The Palestinians shouldn't use terrorism in their resistence to the occupation, so yes there is blame to go there. But let's look at one of the recent signifanct conflicts there..and invation of Gaza which the Goldstone Report was on...were Israel was guilty of war crimes something like 4-1. AND why did that invasion ever happen? Israel refused to renew the cease fire w/ Hamas...who was willing to do another 10 year truce. However Israel would have had to stop settlement development. Israel choose land over peace as they routinely have done. Link to comment
walksalone Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 What is everyone's thought on what should be done with Israel? Should it stay? Should the U.S. support them? If we should not support them, what would happen? Israel is going to do what they're going to do. They'll stop, listen to what we have to say, and if it means withholding something they need, then they'll play ball with the U.N. for the time being. If we support them, we pretty much piss off everyone in the middle east, and if we don't support them, that gives everyone that's pissed at them, the green light to take a run at them. Link to comment
Cactusboy Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 and again, the elephant in the room is the illegal occupation. To blame the Palestinians for how they resist it is sort of like holding a guy down in the mud by a boot on his neck and then complain that he's pulling your leg hairs. Link to comment
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