Why would Israel attack Iran?

[Cactusboy]

Anti-Semitism. That's my guess.

 

 

I would think you'd have something of substance to back up a guess like that before making it. If I was adamently outspoken about the atrocities in Africa by African people/leaders would you guess I'm racist?

[knapplc]

From the start of the ceasefire at 6 AM on June 19 till the incident on November 4th cited by CNN, the following attacks were launched against Israel from Gaza in direct violation of the agreement:

• 18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of June 23.
  
• 20 rockets were fired, beginning on June 24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.
  
• On July 6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.
  
• On the night of August 15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.
  
• On October 31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting an explosive device near the security fence in the area of the Sufa crossing. As the patrol approached the fence the Palestinians fired two anti-tank missiles.
  

There were two Palestinian attempts to infiltrate from Gaza into Israel apparently to abduct Israelis. Both were major violations of the ceasefire.

 

LINK

 

 

Here's some more timely information on who broke the 2008 ceasefire and when.

 

And the anti-Semitism guess was better than wilfull ignorance, which was my other choice. I've seen people with their head in the sand before, but this tack is beyond that. Hard to say what the deal is.

 

Regardless, I'll not be apologizing for what was a simple guess of a reason for this nonsense. I notice, Sub, that you didn't ask Cactus to apologize for any of his shots across the bow. Double-standard much?

[walksalone]

Anti-Semitism. That's my guess.

 

That was a disgusting low blow, you OWE him an apology.

 

[HSKR]

OK Cactus. I really have to ask the million dollar question here. Why do you care so much about this? Is it something personal that you have experienced, someone you know shared experiences or what? I stated before that I think Israel is in the wrong but I don't think the Palestinians are angels either. There is blame to go on both sides. If you want to say Israel is much more to blame, fine. But I really don't get why you and others I have seen when it come to Israel are so passionate with this single issue when the rest of the world is imploding on a daily basis. The reality is this issue is a drop in the bucket, period. Hate me for saying it but it's the truth.

 

http://en.wikipedia....es_1948-present

 

I'm guessing gang wars in the US rival those numbers. Anyone care? Why hasn't anyone here brought up Syria this week? More Syrians died this week then Palestinians died last year? Anyone care? Go google world atrocities and you will see numbers of dead from conflicts since WWII in the hundreds of thousands. I guess if Israel was smart they should have just went in and killed all the Palestinians at the start and we all would have forgotten by now since that is what seems to happen with every other conflict, including the ones still ongoing. I just find it odd how people like you seem to obsess on this one issue. Is it ignorance with what is going on in the rest of the world or you just hate Israel? Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

 

Fair question and I'll try to keep the answer short.

 

Grew up in rural Nebraska. Never had a Jewish friend or really any that weren't white. I had met one Jewish person that I knew of before I graduated college. My cousin's friend and I liked him a lot. I have a few Jewish friends now and a couple of arab nationality, but none that are close friends. I'm just stating all this to show I have no reason to be biased one way or the other.

 

I didn't follow politics or world events much at all until after college. At work there was a loud mouth guy that was always so mad and vocal about his political opinions. I could tell a lot of it was BS. For example he was complaining about wasteful spending, so I asked him how much did Reagan's Star Wars program that never materialized cost. He said millions.

 

Anyway he was the type to rant on about how middle easterners/mulsims/etc are scum and we should nuke'm all. Basically I was getting sick of hearing him and it motivated me to become more informed about politics and world events so I could shut him up. I didn't know a thing about the Israel/Palestine subject other than they were in a ongoing conflict. I found out it was a major issue and even more so after I looked into it. It's basically what the whole mideast drama hinges on.

 

All I ever heard anywhere is how Israel was 100% good/right and arabs the opposite. I figured there had to be more to the story. At the time I was on another sports board that had an off topic forum. I posed some basic questions on it and I got some unsatisfying responses. So I went out to find the best/most nonbiased book on the subject I could find. I dind't put a lot of time/effort in the search but I came up w/ "Whose Promised Land?" It turned out to be a great book and a huge eye opener. As I read it I'd talk about it on the forum and kept on getting the "nothing here to see..move along". and a lot of patronizing/condescending stuff. There were a handful of Jews on the forum and some took offense that I was even asking questions or making points. Well this fueled my curiousity more so over the years I'd rent any dvd on the subject I could find..netflix/blockbuster, history channel...I'd read various books...probably 6-8 now on the subject. The more I'd read/watch the more I was amazed at how totally backwards everyone has it. I mean....just watch half of that doc I posted in this thread and you'll get a glimpse of what I'm talking about. Anyway, then I keep learning more and polishing up on my knowledge by being in threads like this. I've been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm also pretty good w/ discussion on Hugo Chavez and Cuba. Those are 2 subjects our media is very biased against and most Americans are relatively clueless about. It's just that they aren't near as likely going to lead to WW3. and people aren't losing their lives over it on a daily basis.

 

So it's just a very important issue to the world and I feel a sense of duty to bring awareness to it.

Thanks for the reply. It explains to me your passion on the issue. I will agree that we hear about the Israeli-good side much more in this country. The story always seems one sided. I think a lot of that has to do with who actually back the Palestinians, Iran for example and we all know what America thinks of them.

[knapplc]

Cactus, do you believe that Israel is 100% wrong in this conflict, and the Arabs are 100% right?

[Cactusboy]

From the start of the ceasefire at 6 AM on June 19 till the incident on November 4th cited by CNN, the following attacks were launched against Israel from Gaza in direct violation of the agreement:

• 18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of June 23.
  
• 20 rockets were fired, beginning on June 24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.
  
• On July 6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.
  
• On the night of August 15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.
  
• On October 31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting an explosive device near the security fence in the area of the Sufa crossing. As the patrol approached the fence the Palestinians fired two anti-tank missiles.
  

There were two Palestinian attempts to infiltrate from Gaza into Israel apparently to abduct Israelis. Both were major violations of the ceasefire.

 

 

LINK

 

 

Here's some more timely information on who broke the 2008 ceasefire and when.

 

And the anti-Semitism guess was better than wilfull ignorance, which was my other choice. I've seen people with their head in the sand before, but this tack is beyond that. Hard to say what the deal is.

 

Regardless, I'll not be apologizing for what was a simple guess of a reason for this nonsense. I notice, Sub, that you didn't ask Cactus to apologize for any of his shots across the bow. Double-standard much?

 

AGAIN...you are moving the gold posts. Israel broke the ceasefire hours after it started. If we have a staring contest and I blink first...I don't then point out that you blinked 5 seconds later.

 

NOW...if a cease fire it broken..and then the other side hits back, there can be a sort of restart of the ceasefire. But it's still on record who broke it first.

 

Willful ignorance is BIG TIME on your side. You're using all sorts of desparte debating tactics in this thread.

 

No need to appologize for your guess about me. It has zero substance and you can't deny this fact. I also think you need to look up the offical def of the term you throw around.

[Cactusboy]

OK Cactus. I really have to ask the million dollar question here. Why do you care so much about this? Is it something personal that you have experienced, someone you know shared experiences or what? I stated before that I think Israel is in the wrong but I don't think the Palestinians are angels either. There is blame to go on both sides. If you want to say Israel is much more to blame, fine. But I really don't get why you and others I have seen when it come to Israel are so passionate with this single issue when the rest of the world is imploding on a daily basis. The reality is this issue is a drop in the bucket, period. Hate me for saying it but it's the truth.

 

http://en.wikipedia....es_1948-present

 

I'm guessing gang wars in the US rival those numbers. Anyone care? Why hasn't anyone here brought up Syria this week? More Syrians died this week then Palestinians died last year? Anyone care? Go google world atrocities and you will see numbers of dead from conflicts since WWII in the hundreds of thousands. I guess if Israel was smart they should have just went in and killed all the Palestinians at the start and we all would have forgotten by now since that is what seems to happen with every other conflict, including the ones still ongoing. I just find it odd how people like you seem to obsess on this one issue. Is it ignorance with what is going on in the rest of the world or you just hate Israel? Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

 

Fair question and I'll try to keep the answer short.

 

Grew up in rural Nebraska. Never had a Jewish friend or really any that weren't white. I had met one Jewish person that I knew of before I graduated college. My cousin's friend and I liked him a lot. I have a few Jewish friends now and a couple of arab nationality, but none that are close friends. I'm just stating all this to show I have no reason to be biased one way or the other.

 

I didn't follow politics or world events much at all until after college. At work there was a loud mouth guy that was always so mad and vocal about his political opinions. I could tell a lot of it was BS. For example he was complaining about wasteful spending, so I asked him how much did Reagan's Star Wars program that never materialized cost. He said millions.

 

Anyway he was the type to rant on about how middle easterners/mulsims/etc are scum and we should nuke'm all. Basically I was getting sick of hearing him and it motivated me to become more informed about politics and world events so I could shut him up. I didn't know a thing about the Israel/Palestine subject other than they were in a ongoing conflict. I found out it was a major issue and even more so after I looked into it. It's basically what the whole mideast drama hinges on.

 

All I ever heard anywhere is how Israel was 100% good/right and arabs the opposite. I figured there had to be more to the story. At the time I was on another sports board that had an off topic forum. I posed some basic questions on it and I got some unsatisfying responses. So I went out to find the best/most nonbiased book on the subject I could find. I dind't put a lot of time/effort in the search but I came up w/ "Whose Promised Land?" It turned out to be a great book and a huge eye opener. As I read it I'd talk about it on the forum and kept on getting the "nothing here to see..move along". and a lot of patronizing/condescending stuff. There were a handful of Jews on the forum and some took offense that I was even asking questions or making points. Well this fueled my curiousity more so over the years I'd rent any dvd on the subject I could find..netflix/blockbuster, history channel...I'd read various books...probably 6-8 now on the subject. The more I'd read/watch the more I was amazed at how totally backwards everyone has it. I mean....just watch half of that doc I posted in this thread and you'll get a glimpse of what I'm talking about. Anyway, then I keep learning more and polishing up on my knowledge by being in threads like this. I've been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm also pretty good w/ discussion on Hugo Chavez and Cuba. Those are 2 subjects our media is very biased against and most Americans are relatively clueless about. It's just that they aren't near as likely going to lead to WW3. and people aren't losing their lives over it on a daily basis.

 

So it's just a very important issue to the world and I feel a sense of duty to bring awareness to it.

Thanks for the reply. It explains to me your passion on the issue. I will agree that we hear about the Israeli-good side much more in this country. The story always seems one sided. I think a lot of that has to do with who actually back the Palestinians, Iran for example and we all know what America thinks of them.

 

 

It has to do w/ where the money is...where the votes are... Israel has a LOT more influence in the US than arab/mulsims... Not many media outlets or politicans want to deal w/ the crap storn they get when going against Israel in even the slightest manner. Hillary Clinton got blasted many years ago when she simply said each side should have their own state.

[Cactusboy]

Cactus, do you believe that Israel is 100% wrong in this conflict, and the Arabs are 100% right?

 

 

That's a tricky question... I've said Palestinians have committed terrorism(obviously) and that it's wrong and illegal, so they aren't always right in their actions. What I do belive is very simple and simply a truism. Every country and Palestine should obey international law. No more or less should be expected of them than of any other country.

 

The illegal occuption is constant, it has been for many decades. Even when make shift rockets are fired into Israel(rarely do any rare damage) or a suicide bomb goes off(also doesn't happen often) the occupation and building of settlements continue. even during peace talks. All you really have to do is try to put yourself in these people's shows. How would you feel to be a prisoner in your own country? To see foreigners bulldoze your house and neighborhood down to make room for their houses? why should they have to go through this? Because a religion they don't believe in says it should be that way? What would do if you were in their place?

 

When Israel gets out of the territories and follows the laws and THEN they are still doing suicide bombs and such they willh have a legit complaint.

 

You really have to warp your principles to say ohterwise. Your views should be based on your principles...not the other way around.

[walksalone]

From the start of the ceasefire at 6 AM on June 19 till the incident on November 4th cited by CNN, the following attacks were launched against Israel from Gaza in direct violation of the agreement:

• 18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of June 23.
  
• 20 rockets were fired, beginning on June 24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.
  
• On July 6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.
  
• On the night of August 15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.
  
• On October 31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting an explosive device near the security fence in the area of the Sufa crossing. As the patrol approached the fence the Palestinians fired two anti-tank missiles.
  

There were two Palestinian attempts to infiltrate from Gaza into Israel apparently to abduct Israelis. Both were major violations of the ceasefire.

 

 

 

LINK

 

 

Here's some more timely information on who broke the 2008 ceasefire and when.

 

And the anti-Semitism guess was better than wilfull ignorance, which was my other choice. I've seen people with their head in the sand before, but this tack is beyond that. Hard to say what the deal is.

 

Regardless, I'll not be apologizing for what was a simple guess of a reason for this nonsense. I notice, Sub, that you didn't ask Cactus to apologize for any of his shots across the bow. Double-standard much?

 

AGAIN...you are moving the gold posts. Israel broke the ceasefire hours after it started. If we have a staring contest and I blink first...I don't then point out that you blinked 5 seconds later.

 

NOW...if a cease fire it broken..and then the other side hits back, there can be a sort of restart of the ceasefire. But it's still on record who broke it first.

 

Willful ignorance is BIG TIME on your side. You're using all sorts of desparte debating tactics in this thread.

 

No need to appologize for your guess about me. It has zero substance and you can't deny this fact. I also think you need to look up the offical def of the term you throw around.

 

Dude, just head to Israel, join Shayetet 13, so you can euthanizing the heathen muslims so you can live with a clearer conscience....

[Lil' Red]

From the start of the ceasefire at 6 AM on June 19 till the incident on November 4th cited by CNN, the following attacks were launched against Israel from Gaza in direct violation of the agreement:

• 18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of June 23.
  
• 20 rockets were fired, beginning on June 24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.
  
• On July 6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.
  
• On the night of August 15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.
  
• On October 31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting an explosive device near the security fence in the area of the Sufa crossing. As the patrol approached the fence the Palestinians fired two anti-tank missiles.
  

There were two Palestinian attempts to infiltrate from Gaza into Israel apparently to abduct Israelis. Both were major violations of the ceasefire.

 

 

 

 

 

LINK

 

 

Here's some more timely information on who broke the 2008 ceasefire and when.

 

And the anti-Semitism guess was better than wilfull ignorance, which was my other choice. I've seen people with their head in the sand before, but this tack is beyond that. Hard to say what the deal is.

 

Regardless, I'll not be apologizing for what was a simple guess of a reason for this nonsense. I notice, Sub, that you didn't ask Cactus to apologize for any of his shots across the bow. Double-standard much?

 

AGAIN...you are moving the gold posts. Israel broke the ceasefire hours after it started. If we have a staring contest and I blink first...I don't then point out that you blinked 5 seconds later.

 

NOW...if a cease fire it broken..and then the other side hits back, there can be a sort of restart of the ceasefire. But it's still on record who broke it first.

 

Willful ignorance is BIG TIME on your side. You're using all sorts of desparte debating tactics in this thread.

 

No need to appologize for your guess about me. It has zero substance and you can't deny this fact. I also think you need to look up the offical def of the term you throw around.

 

Dude, just head to Israel, join Shayetet 13, so you can euthanizing the heathen muslims so you can live with a clearer conscience....

 

I'm detecting a little bit of prejudice in that statement...

 

Cactusboy seems to be very insightful on the situation and based on conversations I've had with people well informed of the situation and the little research I have done he has accurately depicted it. I suggest those challenging him do some in-depth research before proceeding to do so.

[HuskerCarter]

Maybe i read this wrong or heard it the wrong way. If Israel wants to defend itself from a possible Iranian threat, so be it. If Iran wants to defend itself by attacking Israel, so be it.

 

With that logic every attack/invasion can be justified as a preventive action... a slippery slope indeed.

 

But, and this is the part i don't like, if Iran attacks jewish citizens on US soil, or regular citizens on US soil, even if the US does not get involved. Im sorry, but Iran has then crossed the line.

 

If Iran attacks the US, without US involvement. Well then, one solution is left in my mind to resolve the Iranian government...

 

Dose that justify Israel killing Palestinians, Lebanese and Iranians of their home soils?

 

Has that crossed a line, or is that line one-sided?

 

There is clearly more history to this than i know. So i will proudly excuse myself from the conversation.

[Cactusboy]

From the start of the ceasefire at 6 AM on June 19 till the incident on November 4th cited by CNN, the following attacks were launched against Israel from Gaza in direct violation of the agreement:

• 18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of June 23.
  
• 20 rockets were fired, beginning on June 24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.
  
• On July 6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.
  
• On the night of August 15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.
  
• On October 31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting an explosive device near the security fence in the area of the Sufa crossing. As the patrol approached the fence the Palestinians fired two anti-tank missiles.
  

There were two Palestinian attempts to infiltrate from Gaza into Israel apparently to abduct Israelis. Both were major violations of the ceasefire.

 

 

 

 

LINK

 

 

Here's some more timely information on who broke the 2008 ceasefire and when.

 

And the anti-Semitism guess was better than wilfull ignorance, which was my other choice. I've seen people with their head in the sand before, but this tack is beyond that. Hard to say what the deal is.

 

Regardless, I'll not be apologizing for what was a simple guess of a reason for this nonsense. I notice, Sub, that you didn't ask Cactus to apologize for any of his shots across the bow. Double-standard much?

 

AGAIN...you are moving the gold posts. Israel broke the ceasefire hours after it started. If we have a staring contest and I blink first...I don't then point out that you blinked 5 seconds later.

 

NOW...if a cease fire it broken..and then the other side hits back, there can be a sort of restart of the ceasefire. But it's still on record who broke it first.

 

Willful ignorance is BIG TIME on your side. You're using all sorts of desparte debating tactics in this thread.

 

No need to appologize for your guess about me. It has zero substance and you can't deny this fact. I also think you need to look up the offical def of the term you throw around.

 

Dude, just head to Israel, join Shayetet 13, so you can euthanizing the heathen muslims so you can live with a clearer conscience....

 

Your comedy doesn't seem to make sense as a reply to me..

[knapplc]

From the start of the ceasefire at 6 AM on June 19 till the incident on November 4th cited by CNN, the following attacks were launched against Israel from Gaza in direct violation of the agreement:

• 18 mortars were fired at Israel in this period, beginning on the night of June 23.
  
• 20 rockets were fired, beginning on June 24, when 3 rockets hit the Israeli town of Sderot.
  
• On July 6 farmers working in the fields of Nahal Oz were attacked by light arms fire from Gaza.
  
• On the night of August 15 Palestinians fired across the border at Israeli soldiers near the Karni crossing.
  
• On October 31 an IDF patrol spotted Palestinians planting an explosive device near the security fence in the area of the Sufa crossing. As the patrol approached the fence the Palestinians fired two anti-tank missiles.
  

There were two Palestinian attempts to infiltrate from Gaza into Israel apparently to abduct Israelis. Both were major violations of the ceasefire.

 

 

 

 

LINK

 

 

Here's some more timely information on who broke the 2008 ceasefire and when.

 

 

AGAIN...you are moving the gold posts. Israel broke the ceasefire hours after it started. If we have a staring contest and I blink first...I don't then point out that you blinked 5 seconds later.

 

NOW...if a cease fire it broken..and then the other side hits back, there can be a sort of restart of the ceasefire. But it's still on record who broke it first.

 

Willful ignorance is BIG TIME on your side. You're using all sorts of desparte debating tactics in this thread.

 

No need to appologize for your guess about me. It has zero substance and you can't deny this fact. I also think you need to look up the offical def of the term you throw around.

This is an account of when the ceasefire was broken in 2008 (just after it started, by rockets fired on June 23rd). Now, if you have some evidence that Israel did something prior to this, by all means, share it. Do you know, and I mean really know, without doubt, that the Israelis fired first? Or are you simply basing your point on a Wikipedia page, one that cites a biased source? You declaim the American news outlets for being biased - yet the "hours after it started" article was lifted from The Palestinian Information Center. Hardly unbiased.

 

What I posted is not a "desparte debating tactic," it is a series of facts. We're not engaged in a staring contest, we're engaged in a conversation about facts. If you would like to discuss facts, then let's do so.

[knapplc]

Cactus, do you believe that Israel is 100% wrong in this conflict, and the Arabs are 100% right?

 

 

That's a tricky question... I've said Palestinians have committed terrorism(obviously) and that it's wrong and illegal, so they aren't always right in their actions. What I do belive is very simple and simply a truism. Every country and Palestine should obey international law. No more or less should be expected of them than of any other country.

 

The illegal occuption is constant, it has been for many decades. Even when make shift rockets are fired into Israel(rarely do any rare damage) or a suicide bomb goes off(also doesn't happen often) the occupation and building of settlements continue. even during peace talks. All you really have to do is try to put yourself in these people's shows. How would you feel to be a prisoner in your own country? To see foreigners bulldoze your house and neighborhood down to make room for their houses? why should they have to go through this? Because a religion they don't believe in says it should be that way? What would do if you were in their place?

 

When Israel gets out of the territories and follows the laws and THEN they are still doing suicide bombs and such they willh have a legit complaint.

 

You really have to warp your principles to say ohterwise. Your views should be based on your principles...not the other way around.

 

So your contention is that if Israel would leave the occupied territories the acts of terrorism targeting women and children would stop?

[knapplc]

Here's yet another example of Arabs breaking a ceasefire with Israel:

 

 

 

Well that didn’t last long, did it. The Hamas-declared ceasefire lasted for the whole of Monday. Yesterday, as Israel’s troops tactfully departed Gaza so as not to rain on Obama’s parade gunmen in Gaza fired at IDF patrols in two separate incidents. Today, Ha’aretz reports:

The Israel Air Force on Tuesday attacked areas in the Gaza Strip from which Palestinians fired mortar shells. The Israel Defense Forces said that about eight mortar shells were shot from near a central Gaza refugee camp, apparently by Hamas. Two of the shells landed in the Strip and the rest fell in open territory in the western Negev near the border. ... The Palestinians also fired light weapons into Israel on Tuesday, from both north and south of the Kissufim crossing. An explosive charge was also apparently set off.

Meanwhile, Jordan’s Petra news agency has reported that Hamas hijacked Jordanian aid trucks bound for UNRWA after they crossed into Gaza through the Kerem Shalom crossing yesterday. As the aid was unloaded, Hamas gunmen opened fire on them and forced the drivers to go to Hamas-run stores. And Ha’aretz reports:

The liaison office for civilian territories, meanwhile, said Hamas is intentionally harming humanitarian aid transferred from Israel by firing mortars at the Karni, Kissufim and Kerem Shalom crossings. The liaison office and Shin Bet security service both accused Hamas of looting trucks bringing supplies into Gaza. The Shin Bet also reported many instances since the cease-fire of Hamas members shooting and wounding Fatah activists in Gaza.

 

LINK

 

 

Now, I'm not putting links here to Israeli-broken ceasefires. I'm giving it as accepted that Israel has done this. The point of contention seems to be that Hamas/the Arabs have never done this. I'm simply showing that, as I've said all along, there is blame enough for both parties in this conflict, and neither side is to be looked at as "right" or "wrong."