Is Charles Krauthammer serious?

[Roark]

The problem in this discussion is not that a person like Krauthammer feels that the Tebow story is a good message and much better than the scores of stories about famous athletes who have gone astray. The problem is the people who know so little about religion that they think an allpowerful God should cure all illness and make life completely painless or those who think God helps athletes become rich and famous. People that understand Christianity and people like Tebow understand that Tebow is giving glory to God and not only doing it for what he gets in return. Only a non-believer could view it as God helping an athlete and withholding help from what would appear to be more worthy cases. Might I suggest you study up on free will and regularly attend some church services if you really want to understand how actual Christians view it and the message they receive. You've got it all wrong so it's no wonder you don't understand how it works.

 

No thanks. In fact, I've attended a fair share of church services in my day. So are you agreeing with me that Charles is ignorant? Because he's the one that believes that Lin and Tebow were (I believe he used the word) "chosen" by God.

 

Free will? What does free will have to do with anything if your view is that a god will deliver to you eternal damnation for not believeing in ancient word-of-mouth fables. He won't use his powers to provide evidence of his existence, or to save the life of a father who is dying from cancer treatment, but he will use his almighty power (which he used all the time in the Hebrew Bible) to help American celebrities. The only "free will" I see there is that of your God's... And that he chooses to be sadistic.

[Sub-Husker]

A Jewish man gushing over the virtues of Christianity? Odd

 

More like a far right guy who happens to be Jewish supporting a right wing viewpoint that is supported by many conservative Christians.

[Sub-Husker]

The problem in this discussion is not that a person like Krauthammer feels that the Tebow story is a good message...

 

Let's stop right there.

 

Right wing support for Tim Tebow is more about anti-abortion than the virtues taught by Jesus.

 

Tebow is the poster boy for anti-abortion.

 

Any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause.

[JJ Husker]

The problem in this discussion is not that a person like Krauthammer feels that the Tebow story is a good message...

 

Let's stop right there.

 

Right wing support for Tim Tebow is more about anti-abortion than the virtues taught by Jesus.

 

Tebow is the poster boy for anti-abortion.

 

Any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause.

Just because that is your perspective, don't assume it is everyone's. I'm sure a lot of people only view that angle but I don't happen to be one of them. I think he is genuine in his actions and faith and what impresses me most about him is the time and effort he expends with sick children. Personally I don't think he is that great of a QB but I do appreciate the values he stands for. Anti-abortion is only one of them.

[Sub-Husker]

The problem in this discussion is not that a person like Krauthammer feels that the Tebow story is a good message...

 

Let's stop right there.

 

Right wing support for Tim Tebow is more about anti-abortion than the virtues taught by Jesus.

 

Tebow is the poster boy for anti-abortion.

 

Any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause.

 

Just because that is your perspective, don't assume it is everyone's. I'm sure a lot of people only view that angle but I don't happen to be one of them. I think he is genuine in his actions and faith and what impresses me most about him is the time and effort he expends with sick children. Personally I don't think he is that great of a QB but I do appreciate the values he stands for. Anti-abortion is only one of them.

 

You probably do find him genuine in his beliefs, as do I.

 

However in my opinion many idealogs prop his up as an anti-abortion billboard.

[JJ Husker]

The problem in this discussion is not that a person like Krauthammer feels that the Tebow story is a good message and much better than the scores of stories about famous athletes who have gone astray. The problem is the people who know so little about religion that they think an allpowerful God should cure all illness and make life completely painless or those who think God helps athletes become rich and famous. People that understand Christianity and people like Tebow understand that Tebow is giving glory to God and not only doing it for what he gets in return. Only a non-believer could view it as God helping an athlete and withholding help from what would appear to be more worthy cases. Might I suggest you study up on free will and regularly attend some church services if you really want to understand how actual Christians view it and the message they receive. You've got it all wrong so it's no wonder you don't understand how it works.

 

No thanks. In fact, I've attended a fair share of church services in my day. So are you agreeing with me that Charles is ignorant? Because he's the one that believes that Lin and Tebow were (I believe he used the word) "chosen" by God.

 

Free will? What does free will have to do with anything if your view is that a god will deliver to you eternal damnation for not believeing in ancient word-of-mouth fables. He won't use his powers to provide evidence of his existence, or to save the life of a father who is dying from cancer treatment, but he will use his almighty power (which he used all the time in the Hebrew Bible) to help American celebrities. The only "free will" I see there is that of your God's... And that he chooses to be sadistic.

 

I am not agreeing with you (not sure where you got that idea). But, I also saw nothing in your links that mentioned Lin or that stated Krauthammer thought Tebow was "chosen" by God. I would not necessarily agree that God chose Tebow for anything.

 

Free will has everything to do with God not predetermining our actions, the outcomes, and the ability to accept that bad things can and do happen to good people. I only suggested that you try to understand faith and the ways of God better by learning a lot more about it than your comments lead me to believe you understand about it. I'm a Catholic (Protestant for the first 25 yrs of my life) and a Christian and the things you have stated are not what I have been taught in the churches I have attended and I don't believe they are true for most believers.

1- I don't believe "that a god will deliver to you eternal damnation for not believeing in ancient word-of-mouth fables" In fact I believe that God knows what is every person heart and that your soul will be dealt with accordingly. I don't think not being exposed to some truths, not going to church, being the "wrong" religion, heck even being an atheist, will necessarily cause eternal damnation. I think God is smart enough to know what is right in every case and I can't believe that he put us on this earth only to fail at living up to some unreachable standard.

2- I do believe he has "use(d) his powers to provide evidence of his existence". I have personally witnessed 2 occurances that I consider to be akin to miracles. I saw 2 angels come for my mother when she passed. Saw it the same as I am looking at my keyboard right now. And I was personally cured of one ailment that multiple doctors have told me was impossible. I won't go into to details but I am convinced it was the result of my faith in his ability to cure me if he desired to. I have also seen faith in God help many people through incredibly tough situations. I don't have an answer for why bad things happen to good people or why good things happen to bad people. But, those facts haven't been able to derail my faith as of yet.

3- I don't believe "he will use his almighty power (which he used all the time in the Hebrew Bible) to help American celebrities". That is just so strange, I can't even comment further. Just remember, simply because another human being claims it to be the case, doesn't mean that's the way it works or that others share that belief.

 

You have missed on all counts of what this person of faith believes and thinks. Whether you can or want to acknowledge it, there are things that surpass human understanding. I too wish I had all the answers and that all of them were concrete and undeniable but I also wish I had the winning lotto ticket and that the Huskers will go undefeated next season. I am not here to convert you or swing you over to "our" side. But I really do think you are missing some of the very important fine points of religion. Not much we can do about it if you are unwilling to attempt more than a few trips to "a fair share of church services". I would only request that you don't make the mistake of thinking you understand much about the ways of God or faith because you have exhibited that you don't.

[johnnyrodgers20]

The problem in this discussion is not that a person like Krauthammer feels that the Tebow story is a good message and much better than the scores of stories about famous athletes who have gone astray. The problem is the people who know so little about religion that they think an allpowerful God should cure all illness and make life completely painless or those who think God helps athletes become rich and famous. People that understand Christianity and people like Tebow understand that Tebow is giving glory to God and not only doing it for what he gets in return. Only a non-believer could view it as God helping an athlete and withholding help from what would appear to be more worthy cases. Might I suggest you study up on free will and regularly attend some church services if you really want to understand how actual Christians view it and the message they receive. You've got it all wrong so it's no wonder you don't understand how it works.

 

I agree but I think you wrote this statement wrong. I don't thinnk Christians expect anything form God but love so I believe Tim expects nothing back. When he does do something worthwhile he knows it couldn't be done without God giving him the ability; NOT DOING IT FOR HIM!!

[knapplc]

Right wing support for Tim Tebow is more about anti-abortion than the virtues taught by Jesus.

 

Tebow is the poster boy for anti-abortion.

 

Any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause.

 

Where do you see this? I'll admit to being woefully uneducated in the ways of Tebowmania, but I do not recall ever seeing him linked to anti-abortion causes, let alone "any time."

[Comish]

Someone on this board touted Krauthammer. I can't remember who.

 

I don't know if I am who you are referring to, but I have "touted" Krauthammer in the past based on reading scores of his columns over the years. I believe he is an accomplished wordsmith and find most of his articles laden with substanial substance (as oppossed to the majority of print journalists who rarely create original thought, but merely regurgitate the same tired lines). The fact that he has overcome a tragic paralyizing accident as a collegiate athlete also gives him a differing perspective when commenting on athletics. No matter what one thinks of the particular article in question in this thread, I would suggest folks would be remiss by casually dismissing his collective years as a commentator.

[Sub-Husker]

Right wing support for Tim Tebow is more about anti-abortion than the virtues taught by Jesus.

 

Tebow is the poster boy for anti-abortion.

 

Any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause.

 

Where do you see this? I'll admit to being woefully uneducated in the ways of Tebowmania, but I do not recall ever seeing him linked to anti-abortion causes, let alone "any time."

 

It is the story of his birth. His mother's doctor recommended an abortion because statistically speaking her life was in grat danger. She had Tim anyway, and the anti-abortion crowd had run with this as a case as to why abortion was bad.

[knapplc]

Right wing support for Tim Tebow is more about anti-abortion than the virtues taught by Jesus.

 

Tebow is the poster boy for anti-abortion.

 

Any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause.

 

Where do you see this? I'll admit to being woefully uneducated in the ways of Tebowmania, but I do not recall ever seeing him linked to anti-abortion causes, let alone "any time."

 

It is the story of his birth. His mother's doctor recommended an abortion because statistically speaking her life was in grat danger. She had Tim anyway, and the anti-abortion crowd had run with this as a case as to why abortion was bad.

 

Right, but that doesn't translate to "any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause." At best this is a gross exaggeration. To the best of my (limited) knowledge of Tim Tebow, he doesn't equate his praying with anti-abortion stances, nor does the overwhelming majority of the press, sports journalism, or folks discussing sports/Tim Tebow online.

 

One group somewhere may have made this connection, but I think we're delving into hyperbolic areas with this description of Tebow's religion.

[Sub-Husker]

Right, but that doesn't translate to "any time Tebow is seen praying, he is serving as a billboard for their cause." At best this is a gross exaggeration. To the best of my (limited) knowledge of Tim Tebow, he doesn't equate his praying with anti-abortion stances, nor does the overwhelming majority of the press, sports journalism, or folks discussing sports/Tim Tebow online.

 

One group somewhere may have made this connection, but I think we're delving into hyperbolic areas with this description of Tebow's religion.

 

OK, we can each interpret this our own way based on our own experiences.

 

I have two family members who are very conservative Christians who are constantly posting or emailing stuff on the virtues of Tebow, and I interpret that as them trumpeting their anti-abortion stance. I interpret the same intent behind many conservative pundits.

 

I understand that you see it differently, so treat my post as per my POV.

[knapplc]

I do treat your posts as per your point of view. That doesn't mean that when you say something odd like that, that you should expect to remain free from questions about your stance. It's no different than you asking anyone else to clarify their stance on anything.

 

I rather thought that was self-evident, as the reason for a forum to exist.

[Sub-Husker]

I do treat your posts as per your point of view. That doesn't mean that when you say something odd like that, that you should expect to remain free from questions about your stance. It's no different than you asking anyone else to clarify their stance on anything.

 

I rather thought that was self-evident, as the reason for a forum to exist.

 

The debate should center around the population in general.

 

I gave my impression on Tebow that holds true for me, and for many others that I have talked to. But not everyone, including yourself.

 

Despite our disagreement, I believe that my point is logical based on the facts around Tebow's birth and who is offering him the most praise.

[knapplc]

And I have shown that it's not representative of the intent or coverage of Tebow, but you're welcome to your opinion and I do not grudge you your perspective.