Affordable Care Act / ObamaCare

[strigori]

The 'Baby Boomer' issue everyone has known about for decades, and short sighted politicians always ignore the long term, as they are only concerned with the next election cycle. And really, the stock market collapse that may well happen when the Boomers all start pulling 401k money out is another whole ball of wax too. We elect too damn many lawyers and not enough engineers. We need people who can thing long term, and use facts, instead of pure ideology. A massive chuck, I dare say most, of our elected politicians are where they are for money and power, and not for the right reasons.

 

Neither side has all the answers to these issues, though the left is closer to the mark than the right. The right uses the same solution for everything. "Cut taxes on businesses and the rich, and get rid of all regulation and everything will magically fix itself" Its just a payback to themselves and the big money who funded their elections in the first place. There is even a business truth that offers some support for the left trying to encourage the economy. "You have to spend money to make money." We are a consumer based economy, putting more money in the hands of companies that are already sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars doesn't change anything. They will just continue to sit on money. Without people buying things, our economy stagnates. Helping out small businesses is something I support fully though. They are the way to better recover our economy, not mega corps who only care about their bonuses and stock prices.

 

The #1 problem we have with healthcare is the for-profit nature of these businesses. Costs go up due to the demand of stockholders to have bigger returns and we all pay for it. Ever look at your itemized bill from a trip to the hospital? There are markups on there that give the execs woodies. We are subsidizing the rest of the planet's healthcare costs. The exact same drug can be bought in other countries for a fraction of the price.

 

Don't think for one second that you don't already pay for the uninsured, you do. Many of the hospital companies 'claim' to be non-profit. And in order to do so they have to comp care. This usually takes place at an emergency room after an uninsured person has let something fester, some issue that could have been solved by a doctor visit and a cheap prescription, but because they could not afford the several hundred dollar doctor visit that issue now costs several thousand dollars to resolve. Preventative, and early care is insanely cheaper, and more effective, than waiting til something becomes life threatening, or unbearably painful. This is even an issue for people with healthcare coverage. As the deductibles and co-pays can often be too much for people to afford as well.

 

Single payer is the answer, and if that puts some insurance people out of business, too bad, so sad. Health is as paramount and Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. As without your health, you are not going to have much luck with the other three. And we are the only modernized nation where we let big business' greed have complete control over our healthcare system.

[johnnyrodgers20]

We are Greece just ten years ago. I was watching a show, I can't remember where and I don't have the stats but we have the same financial numbers that Greece had a decade ago.

 

Johnny, you said you were going to find the numbers to support this allegation. Where are those stats in anything you've linked?

 

Where are your stats, remember you saw a show that had the exact opposite numbers. You are so worried about my numbers but you haven't shown anything, what ya got, Knapplcy?

[knapplc]

We are Greece just ten years ago. I was watching a show, I can't remember where and I don't have the stats but we have the same financial numbers that Greece had a decade ago.

 

Johnny, you said you were going to find the numbers to support this allegation. Where are those stats in anything you've linked?

 

Where are your stats, remember you saw a show that had the exact opposite numbers. You are so worried about my numbers but you haven't shown anything, what ya got, Knapplcy?

 

I thought the point of that post was perfectly obvious. Apparently not.

[johnnyrodgers20]

We are Greece just ten years ago. I was watching a show, I can't remember where and I don't have the stats but we have the same financial numbers that Greece had a decade ago.

 

Johnny, you said you were going to find the numbers to support this allegation. Where are those stats in anything you've linked?

 

Where are your stats, remember you saw a show that had the exact opposite numbers. You are so worried about my numbers but you haven't shown anything, what ya got, Knapplcy?

 

I thought the point of that post was perfectly obvious. Apparently not.

 

 

So apparently I have to show my numbers while you do not, sounds about right, typical!! So you have no evidence to back up your previous post, is that what you are saying? So you were just trolling, in other words?!?!

[knapplc]

America is in a better position than Greece for many reasons. Not least among them is that we are the international currency standard, and will remain so as long as we have a strong trading relationship with China - read: for the foreseeable future. Our per-capita debt ratio to our GDP is better (about $47k per person, while our debt-to-GDP ratio is about 1:1) than Greece's (about $27K per person, but their debt-to-GDP ratio is about 2:3). Combine that with the fact that our unemployment numbers peaked at about 10% and have been slowly edging downward, while Greece's unemployment is around 23%, and you have very disparate pictures of the situation between the US and Greek economies. Greece will collapse without foreign aid. American needs to exercise more restraint in its spending, internally, and it'll be OK. HUGE difference there.

 

Sources:

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/articles/2010/1101_government_debt_prasad/DebtChart5.pdf

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/unemployment-rate

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm

http://www.gfmag.com/gdp-data-country-reports/266-greece-gdp-country-report.html#axzz1qzpJRSqa

[johnnyrodgers20]

America is in a better position than Greece for many reasons. Not least among them is that we are the international currency standard, and will remain so as long as we have a strong trading relationship with China - read: for the foreseeable future. Our per-capita debt ratio to our GDP is better (about $47k per person, while our debt-to-GDP ratio is about 1:1) than Greece's (about $27K per person, but their debt-to-GDP ratio is about 2:3). Combine that with the fact that our unemployment numbers peaked at about 10% and have been slowly edging downward, while Greece's unemployment is around 23%, and you have very disparate pictures of the situation between the US and Greek economies. Greece will collapse without foreign aid. American needs to exercise more restraint in its spending, internally, and it'll be OK. HUGE difference there.

 

Sources:

http://www.brookings.../DebtChart5.pdf

http://www.tradingec...employment-rate

http://www.tradingec...employment-rate

http://www.bea.gov/n.../gdp_glance.htm

http://www.gfmag.com...l#axzz1qzpJRSqa

 

 

Thank you Knapplcy, but there are a few things that I noticed. One, unemployemnt is a current indicator but when infaltion hits because of the rising debt and interest payments those numbers are going to rise again. And you never touched on the total debt that we owe, it will crush very soon. While these numbers are comforting you are dancing around the 800 lb. gorilla in the room.

 

The government's total indebtedness -- its fiscal gap -- now stands at $211 trillion, by my arithmetic. The fiscal gap is the difference, measured in present value, between all projected future spending obligations -- including our huge defense expenditures and massive entitlement programs, as well as making interest and principal payments on the official debt -- and all projected future taxes.

 

[knapplc]

I'm not saying that we're in good shape. We're not. You simply said that we are the equivalent of Greece, and for many, many reasons we aren't.

 

You get called on it just about every time you parrot Fox News' derp. This is just another one of those times.

[johnnyrodgers20]

America is in a better position than Greece for many reasons. Not least among them is that we are the international currency standard, and will remain so as long as we have a strong trading relationship with China - read: for the foreseeable future. Our per-capita debt ratio to our GDP is better (about $47k per person, while our debt-to-GDP ratio is about 1:1) than Greece's (about $27K per person, but their debt-to-GDP ratio is about 2:3). Combine that with the fact that our unemployment numbers peaked at about 10% and have been slowly edging downward, while Greece's unemployment is around 23%, and you have very disparate pictures of the situation between the US and Greek economies. Greece will collapse without foreign aid. American needs to exercise more restraint in its spending, internally, and it'll be OK. HUGE difference there.

 

Sources:

http://www.brookings.../DebtChart5.pdf

http://www.tradingec...employment-rate

http://www.tradingec...employment-rate

http://www.bea.gov/n.../gdp_glance.htm

http://www.gfmag.com...l#axzz1qzpJRSqa

 

That bolded statement is not correct from my understanding. There actually were a few secret meetings with the intent to remove the dollar as the default currency due to our credit rating, debt, among other issues. The countries could not agree to do it but there is talk and as we spiral downward into bankruptcy that other nations will look to replace the dollar with another more stable currency. Luck for us right now there isn't any other nation with a better credit history. But it isn't that far down the road that we could be in trouble, there have been rumblings of another down grade to our credit rating. If that happens we could be in serious trouble!!

[johnnyrodgers20]

I'm not saying that we're in good shape. We're not. You simply said that we are the equivalent of Greece, and for many, many reasons we aren't.

 

You get called on it just about every time you parrot Fox News' derp. This is just another one of those times.

 

 

We may be in worse shape than Greece, I don't know the total debt for Greece but when you add all the debt for entitlements we are in critical condition. 211 trillion owed, how the heck do you even begin to pay it back.

 

I knew you would go the old fox news derp, but how do you explain CNN. And the numbers don't lie, you may notlike fox news but look into the numbers, they are scarey!!

[knapplc]

Again, I never said the numbers weren't scary. I never said we were in good shape. I ONLY said that we are not = Greece. Not now, not ten years ago.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Again, I never said the numbers weren't scary. I never said we were in good shape. I ONLY said that we are not = Greece. Not now, not ten years ago.

And I said we would be Greece in ten years not now. We are traveling down the same path and if we do not change course we are doomed to their fate. We will not have the default currency if we pile on all the debt projected, we will have unemployment rates much, much higher and runaway inflation.

[carlfense]

Again, I never said the numbers weren't scary. I never said we were in good shape. I ONLY said that we are not = Greece. Not now, not ten years ago.

And I said we would be Greece in ten years not now. We are traveling down the same path and if we do not change course we are doomed to their fate. We will not have the default currency if we pile on all the debt projected, we will have unemployment rates much, much higher and runaway inflation.

Maybe they'll have some secret meetings to fix everything.

[knapplc]

Not buying it, again, for the multiple reasons I cited. Our debt structure is tremendously different than Greece's. Not only is Greece not the world's top economy, it's not even close, and has never been (not even during Alexander's or Alcibiades' time), while America has held that spot for decades and decades. Further, the unemployment numbers cannot simply be overlooked because they don't fit your argument. Greece's unemployment is near-catastrophic. Ours dipped to uncomfortable levels and is returning to more tolerable levels.

 

Now, I definitely agree with you that we are not in good shape. But we can get back in good shape if we work at it, and it won't take even remotely the same work as it's taking for Greece. Europe doesn't need to bail us out (we're bailing Europe out, actually, which is in turn bailing out Greece), and we have the internal capacity to right this ship. It's not good. But it's not nearly as bad as your Fox News zombie-think overlords are telling you - and they would be telling you a tremendously different thing than they are now if a GOP man was in the White House. We know that because, as Rome burned back in 2008, Fox kept playing its fiddle hoping the GOP would, once again, retain control of the White House. Once that didn't happen, doom-and-gloom prevailed.

 

The take-away is, be wary and vigilant against the excesses of government. But be blind toward those who would lie to you to gain your viewership. The latter is the greater evil.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Not buying it, again, for the multiple reasons I cited. Our debt structure is tremendously different than Greece's. Not only is Greece not the world's top economy, it's not even close, and has never been (not even during Alexander's or Alcibiades' time), while America has held that spot for decades and decades. Further, the unemployment numbers cannot simply be overlooked because they don't fit your argument. Greece's unemployment is near-catastrophic. Ours dipped to uncomfortable levels and is returning to more tolerable levels.

 

Now, I definitely agree with you that we are not in good shape. But we can get back in good shape if we work at it, and it won't take even remotely the same work as it's taking for Greece. Europe doesn't need to bail us out (we're bailing Europe out, actually, which is in turn bailing out Greece), and we have the internal capacity to right this ship. It's not good. But it's not nearly as bad as your Fox News zombie-think overlords are telling you - and they would be telling you a tremendously different thing than they are now if a GOP man was in the White House. We know that because, as Rome burned back in 2008, Fox kept playing its fiddle hoping the GOP would, once again, retain control of the White House. Once that didn't happen, doom-and-gloom prevailed.

 

The take-away is, be wary and vigilant against the excesses of government. But be blind toward those who would lie to you to gain your viewership. The latter is the greater evil.

 

I hope you know I am talking about ten years down the road, my initial statement was we will be Greece in ten years. If you look at CNN, MSNBC, there are many on there who are talking about the same thing. Of course, we are not Greece now but in ten years if we do not "right the ship" as you phrased it we will be like Greece, just look at the numbers. We won't have the default currency to help our country and allow us to print money at any whim, we won't be the world's top economy in ten years with the debt burden not addressed. All those things you said we have now to aleviate the problems we won't have if we do not do something NOW! Unfortunately, there many like you who do not feel we are in trouble and that spending is actually helping us. We will already be in the jaws of the lion when the spend corwd have their epiphany.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Again, I never said the numbers weren't scary. I never said we were in good shape. I ONLY said that we are not = Greece. Not now, not ten years ago.

And I said we would be Greece in ten years not now. We are traveling down the same path and if we do not change course we are doomed to their fate. We will not have the default currency if we pile on all the debt projected, we will have unemployment rates much, much higher and runaway inflation.

Maybe they'll have some secret meetings to fix everything.

 

Troll!! Carly, I expect better from you!!