The Ron Brown Religion & Persecution Thread

[Saunders]

This all looks like a second edition of the old "racism doesn't exist in America . . . except from minorities who accuse others of being racist . . . and that's the worst form of racism" argument.

 

Sad stuff.

Pretty sure nobody said that.

[carlfense]

i feel as though we will always discriminate, and there will always be racism until we as a society can quit injecting race into every single thing.

So you feel that racism will exist until it doesn't exist?

 

Well . . . yeah.

[carlfense]

This all looks like a second edition of the old "racism doesn't exist in America . . . except from minorities who accuse others of being racist . . . and that's the worst form of racism" argument.

 

Sad stuff.

Pretty sure nobody said that.

Hence, "second edition."

 

New and improved if you prefer.

[kchusker_chris]

i feel as though we will always discriminate, and there will always be racism until we as a society can quit injecting race into every single thing.

So you feel that racism will exist until it doesn't exist?

 

Well . . . yeah.

haha. maybe you simplified it a little too much there. every time we create a law requiring racism to be a piece of the hiring process, or a piece of this or that - we "require" the injection of racism into something. how can it ever go away if it's law? it kind of goes against democracy and capitalism. it's not free enterprise, because as a business owner I am not always free to hire the best candidate...or frankly, i'm not free to hire who I want.

[knapplc]

i feel as though we will always discriminate, and there will always be racism until we as a society can quit injecting race into every single thing.

I agree.

I do, too. And it's sad, because it's so unnecessary. I often feel like the little dutch kid putting his finger in the dike. You can't hold back the flood.

 

"Us vs. Them" is human nature, and probably dates back eons to our hunter-gatherer days when simple survival meant banding together to protect your assets from the group in the next valley. It would be fantastic if we could just logic our way out of such things, but it's way easier said than done. Sucks.

[Saunders]

This all looks like a second edition of the old "racism doesn't exist in America . . . except from minorities who accuse others of being racist . . . and that's the worst form of racism" argument.

 

Sad stuff.

Pretty sure nobody said that.

Hence, "second edition."

 

New and improved if you prefer.

And by second edition, you mean "this is what I think you guys are saying, because... yeah."

[knapplc]

It's Rooney rule, but I digress. It's basis is also not that uncommon. Certain entities are required to interview minority candidates, even if they already know who the want to hire.

 

Yikes. Should have known that. That's embarrassing.

 

I think you're getting at Affirmative Action, which I know exists, but it's not as prevalent as people think. AA flies in the face of Federal law, yet some Fed agencies require it in their hiring practices, as well as the hiring practices of the contractors who work with them. It's absurd.

[carlfense]

This all looks like a second edition of the old "racism doesn't exist in America . . . except from minorities who accuse others of being racist . . . and that's the worst form of racism" argument.

 

Sad stuff.

Pretty sure nobody said that.

Hence, "second edition."

 

New and improved if you prefer.

And by second edition, you mean "this is what I think you guys are saying, because... yeah."

Not at all.

[robsker]

Regarding who Ron Brown represents in a public speaking engagement... I have some thoughts from a position of modest commonality with coach brown...

 

I am a university professor; and am as well a pastor of a church. I give many public presentations as well (most secular, some Christian). When a public figure is employed by a secular institution and is also a Christian (on a real small scale, like myself --- or on a larger, but still somewhat small scale, like Ron Brown --- or on a large scale --- like Tim Tebow) --- it is incumbent upon that person to explicitly sate --- explicitly preface all that they say in a formal public setting by stating that they, at this venue, represent their employer, their church or themselves only (whichever is applicable for that venue) AND that their views do not represent those of the groups that they are affiliated with that are not mentioned. That is, Ron Brown when speaking at a public venue during which he references his Christian position(s) should state that "in this presentation I am representing my church (or myself only) and not my employer --- the views expressed are not those of my employer, UNL, and are entirely my own...."

 

And... if he is invited by a group to speak because he is a UNL coach... then his content in his presentation should be UNL football, coaching, etc. and not be of anything associated with his faith. If he is invited by a church group... then leave the coaching UNL references out. Separate the two and be respectful of your employer and those in attendance to hear you speak.

 

That is my perspective... for what it is worth. Again, I hope Ron Brown reconsiders what he is doing (or, at least what it appears that he is doing)... and changes.

[knapplc]

Not to put words in Carlfense's mouth, but I believe he's referring to a past conversation we've had here in this forum. It's vaguely familiar that we discussed this in the last year-ish. We talk about a lot here, so who knows.

[knapplc]

Regarding who Ron Brown represents in a public speaking engagement... I have some thoughts from a position of modest commonality with coach brown...

 

I am a university professor; and am as well a pastor of a church. I give many public presentations as well (most secular, some Christian). When a public figure is employed by a secular institution and is also a Christian (on a real small scale, like myself --- or on a larger, but still somewhat small scale, like Ron Brown --- or on a large scale --- like Tim Tebow) --- it is incumbent upon that person to explicitly sate --- explicitly preface all that they say in a formal public setting by stating that they, at this venue, represent their employer, their church or themselves only (whichever is applicable for that venue) AND that their views do not represent those of the groups that they are affiliated with that are not mentioned. That is, Ron Brown when speaking at a public venue during which he references his Christian position(s) should state that "in this presentation I am representing my church (or myself only) and not my employer --- the views expressed are not those of my employer, UNL, and are entirely my own...."

 

And... if he is invited by a group to speak because he is a UNL coach... then his content in his presentation should be UNL football, coaching, etc. and not be of anything associated with his faith. If he is invited by a church group... then leave the coaching UNL references out. Separate the two and be respectful of your employer and those in attendance to hear you speak.

 

That is my perspective... for what it is worth. Again, I hope Ron Brown reconsiders what he is doing (or, at least what it appears that he is doing)... and changes.

 

Funny you say that. From today's Sports Illustrated article on this topic:

Osborne, now the athletic director, said Brown is within his rights to express his personal views.

 

 

 

"I think it's important that there be clarity with what you do in your capacity at the university and what you do as a private citizen," Osborne said.

 

Brown stepped to the pulpit at Dundee Presbyterian Church in Omaha on Sunday night and began preaching with the same passion he brings to coaching. He gave a pep talk about the role of missionaries. Football was the backdrop, with Brown mentioning star running back Rex Burkhead as he spoke figuratively about "pushing the ball over the goal line."

 

Brown offered a disclaimer after his 50-minute talk, saying his views did not necessarily reflect those of the university. Pamphlets in the pews referred to Brown as an "accomplished football coach" but made no mention of his ties to the Huskers.

 

Brown said he isn't "picking on" gays and lesbians. He said a gay agenda has cropped up in American culture and that he is merely responding to it.

 

He said gays and lesbians do not deserve the same protections as groups that historically have been discriminated against, such as blacks and women.

 

"I have simply said that based on the Bible, homosexuality, the lifestyle of homosexuality, is a sin," he said. "That has created a flame within itself. But I've decided I'm not going to be afraid of people calling me a bigot or a homophobic or narrow-minded out of a simple, gentle, compassionate expression of the truth of God's word. I'm not going to be bought off by that."

 

Read more

[kchusker_chris]

i feel as though we will always discriminate, and there will always be racism until we as a society can quit injecting race into every single thing.

I agree.

I do, too. And it's sad, because it's so unnecessary. I often feel like the little dutch kid putting his finger in the dike. You can't hold back the flood.

 

"Us vs. Them" is human nature, and probably dates back eons to our hunter-gatherer days when simple survival meant banding together to protect your assets from the group in the next valley. It would be fantastic if we could just logic our way out of such things, but it's way easier said than done. Sucks.

I was reading an article the other day regarding an Iowa discrimination suit - something about not enough people of color in an organization. (Iowa is like 1.8% black, or some really low number so obviously not a lot diversity in the state in the first place). Anyways there was a link to a test you could take. It flashes pictures of white/blacks and you associate positive/negative words with each. It takes a while, and you have to go really quick - but at the end it tells you if you lean one way or the other. It's used to prove that human nature dictates discrimination as much as anything - an no matter the laws or other things you put around it, people are not able avoid being discriminatory. Something like 82% of all respondents lean towards their own race. I surprisingly didn't have a bias...which I thought I would because I usually have some pretty strong beliefs based on a few past experiences. But it tested your natural inclination. It was kind of interesting. I was trying to find the link but couldn't. I want to say it was a MIT study or something like that.

[carlfense]

Regarding who Ron Brown represents in a public speaking engagement... I have some thoughts from a position of modest commonality with coach brown...

 

I am a university professor; and am as well a pastor of a church. I give many public presentations as well (most secular, some Christian). When a public figure is employed by a secular institution and is also a Christian (on a real small scale, like myself --- or on a larger, but still somewhat small scale, like Ron Brown --- or on a large scale --- like Tim Tebow) --- it is incumbent upon that person to explicitly sate --- explicitly preface all that they say in a formal public setting by stating that they, at this venue, represent their employer, their church or themselves only (whichever is applicable for that venue) AND that their views do not represent those of the groups that they are affiliated with that are not mentioned. That is, Ron Brown when speaking at a public venue during which he references his Christian position(s) should state that "in this presentation I am representing my church (or myself only) and not my employer --- the views expressed are not those of my employer, UNL, and are entirely my own...."

 

And... if he is invited by a group to speak because he is a UNL coach... then his content in his presentation should be UNL football, coaching, etc. and not be of anything associated with his faith. If he is invited by a church group... then leave the coaching UNL references out. Separate the two and be respectful of your employer and those in attendance to hear you speak.

 

That is my perspective... for what it is worth. Again, I hope Ron Brown reconsiders what he is doing (or, at least what it appears that he is doing)... and changes.

Absolutely agree.

[HuskerFanChuck]

I think a lot of us will end up agreeing to disagree. For what it's worth (probably not much to many), here's my take on it:

 

I'm a strong believer in Ron Brown and his leadership and abilities to help others, including the kids he coaches. I think he made a mistake by listing his address as Memorial Stadium in the Omaha CC meeting. He knows that, and has admitted such publicily, and I believe even apologized for it. He's learned from that. Beyond that, I believe he is free to express his opinion however he wants to outside of his position. Can he completely separate himself from it? No, and I think anyone would admit that. But I also believe (as does Osborne and Perlman) that he is still free to express those positions outisde of the position as long as he's clear it is his opinion, and not that of the University. I agree with all of that.

 

He has not, from anything I have seen or read regarding what he has said, promoted hatred, violence, or harassment on another individual. He has told of his beliefs of homosexuality as a sin, and his disdain for that lifestyle and the sin. That does not equal hatred for any individual or hatred for homosexuals in general. I think those promoting a homosexual agenda within the culture, those that like to preach the word of tolerance, are intolerant of any viewpoint that says that homosexuality is a choice and an immoral lifestyle, rather than a view that states that you born or 'are' homosexual, and promote is as a 'normal' lifestyle. I do not and have not and will not tolerate discrimination against anyone based on homosexuality. Neither does Ron Brown, and that's pretty clear in his statements as well. But I also do not, will not, and cannot support legislation that makes what I believe to be a choice of a lifestyle a special class of discrimination. I see no reason to begin placing choices within our non-discrimination laws, with the exception of religion. But religion has also been given a preferential status within the constitution. It is the one choice that people would compare that was established as a fundamental right at the founding of our nation. Big difference in my eyes.

 

Regardless, to call for Ron Brown's firing or his resignation is foolish. There is no reason that I've seen that would warrant it, and unless I see something a lot different than what's been put out there so far, I couldn't see a reason to do it in the future.

[robsker]

Regarding Coach Brown being quoted as having used a disclaimer...

 

Great to hear. I did not know that he did this and am, of course, glad he did.

 

If this is his normal protocol then this whole issue is a non issue