The AWOL Romney Tax Returns - what's the holdup?

[BigRedBuster]

More and more of that middle class isn't paying taxes and more and more of them are starting to rely on government programs.

Which taxes are you referring to? Income only? Payroll? Sales?

 

The Health Care Bill is a prime example of that.

How so?

 

 

A very large amount of the problem with health care is that Americans don't give a crap. Americans are NOT a healthy population based in large part on their own choices. After all, why should I care about eating that triple cheese burger every day from Burger King and am 150 lbs over weight while I'm smoking 2 packs a day. After all, if I need health care, it's paid for.

 

Now, that was started because a vast majority of people have had health insurance paid for by their employer. The problem is, this poor health is getting so bad that employers can't afford it anymore.

 

What's the answer? It sure as hell isn't make wiser decisions. The answer is to create a huge government program that will take care of these people. THIS includes a huge number of middle class people. Once those people are on the government program, I will guarentee you it will be very difficult for them to get off.

 

So, those people will be more likely to vote for what ever candidate says he will keep it coming. Hey...let's make the rich pay for it.

you know there is a direct correlation between health and income. poor people are unhealthy because unhealthy food is cheap. you are punishing poor people for being poor, and they are poor because they started out poor.

 

i agree though, personal responsibility is important. but so is a country that is willing to work together for common goals and improvement of everyone. it is called enlightened self-interest and it should be just as important as personal responsibility.

 

Sorry, but that bolded statement is a load of crap. Not trying to be mean but this is something I am passionate about.

 

I have studied nutrition a lot. I have been that person who has been extremely unhealthy and since the beginning of the year I have lost over 55 lbs and am in better shape now than I was in my 20s. (45 years old now)

 

I would argue with ANYONE that claims eating healthy is more expensive. Processed and prepared foods in boxes or cans are flat out more expensive than if you make meals from fresh products. I save a HUGE amount of money in food compared to what I used to eat. And, it isn't just different foods, it is the QUANTITY of food I used to eat.

 

Heck, even when I go out to eat at a restaurant, I can find equal or cheaper HEALTHY products on the menu then what I used to eat.

 

Sorry, that one doesn't cut it.

[BigRedBuster]

If there is a demand for a product, how does a company get the money to build a factory and start producing it?

If there isn't demand for a product, how does investing money in the company to create that product create jobs?

 

They both need to be there.

No . . . outside investment doesn't always need to be there. That's simply false.

 

Who said anything about only outside investment?

[carlfense]

They both need to be there.

No . . . outside investment doesn't always need to be there. That's simply false.

Who said anything about only outside investment?

OK. I'll give you that you didn't specify outside investment.

 

It's still false. The business could simply obtain a loan. No investment required.

[carlfense]

Sorry, but that bolded statement is a load of crap. Not trying to be mean but this is something I am passionate about.

 

I have studied nutrition a lot. I have been that person who has been extremely unhealthy and since the beginning of the year I have lost over 55 lbs and am in better shape now than I was in my 20s. (45 years old now)

 

I would argue with ANYONE that claims eating healthy is more expensive. Processed and prepared foods in boxes or cans are flat out more expensive than if you make meals from fresh products. I save a HUGE amount of money in food compared to what I used to eat. And, it isn't just different foods, it is the QUANTITY of food I used to eat.

 

Heck, even when I go out to eat at a restaurant, I can find equal or cheaper HEALTHY products on the menu then what I used to eat.

 

Sorry, that one doesn't cut it.

I agree with you. You can eat cheaply and healthy if you're willing and able to put in the time to cook. It's amazing how (comparatively) cheap frozen vegetables, rice, chicken, etc. are.

[BigRedBuster]

They both need to be there.

No . . . outside investment doesn't always need to be there. That's simply false.

Who said anything about only outside investment?

OK. I'll give you that you didn't specify outside investment.

 

It's still false. The business could simply obtain a loan. No investment required.

 

A loan is still a form of investment. The owner of that business is paying interest (investment) so that he can have the money to create the jobs.

[BigRedBuster]

Sorry, but that bolded statement is a load of crap. Not trying to be mean but this is something I am passionate about.

 

I have studied nutrition a lot. I have been that person who has been extremely unhealthy and since the beginning of the year I have lost over 55 lbs and am in better shape now than I was in my 20s. (45 years old now)

 

I would argue with ANYONE that claims eating healthy is more expensive. Processed and prepared foods in boxes or cans are flat out more expensive than if you make meals from fresh products. I save a HUGE amount of money in food compared to what I used to eat. And, it isn't just different foods, it is the QUANTITY of food I used to eat.

 

Heck, even when I go out to eat at a restaurant, I can find equal or cheaper HEALTHY products on the menu then what I used to eat.

 

Sorry, that one doesn't cut it.

I agree with you. You can eat cheaply and healthy if you're willing and able to put in the time to cook. It's amazing how (comparatively) cheap frozen vegetables, rice, chicken, etc. are.

 

It's not even a matter of cooking at home. Almost all fast food joints have more healthy choices now that are cheaper or the same price as a Bacon double cheese burger with a super sized order of fries and coke.

 

Don't get me started on pop (soda for the easterners). The worst crap you can drink and it's expensive to boot. LIterally, the only thing the human body needs to drink (most of the time) is water. Nothing cheaper.

[carlfense]

A loan is still a form of investment. The owner of that business is paying interest (investment) so that he can have the money to create the jobs.

Meh. Semantics. A bank loan isn't an investor in the sense of the "job creators" meme pushed by Luntz.

 

Perhaps we could more easily agree that you need money to operate/start a business. That can come from your own wealth, investors, bank loans, grants, etc.

[BigRedBuster]

More and more of that middle class isn't paying taxes and more and more of them are starting to rely on government programs. The Health Care Bill is a prime example of that.

 

Where are you getting this from? Are you talking about the unemployment rate, which is a result of one of the worst economic downturns since The Great Depression?

 

Also, Obamacare isn't an example of that. It's an example of trying to fix a horribly broken health care system. It's also an example of America finally making an attempt to join the rest of the First World in providing each citizen with healthcare - something the world's wealthiest nation should be able to do with ease, and something it should be embarrassed not to have done decades ago.

 

A pathetically horrible attempt that the people who supposedly wrote the bill didn't even know what was in it when it passed.

[carlfense]

A pathetically horrible attempt that the people who supposedly wrote the bill didn't even know what was in it when it passed.

If you're talking about the Pelosi quote you might want to re-read it.

[BigRedBuster]

Why, why, why, why is welfare an excuse for Romney not to pay taxes like everyone else? This is ridiculous.

 

 

I am fine with Romney paying more if more people are forced to also pay into the system also.

 

Here is a question I often ask and I almost never get an answer.

 

No matter how much you make, what is the MAXIMUM that is fair for you to have to pay in taxes? In other words, what percentage of someone's income that the government would take that you would sit back and say...."Oooooo.....that just isn't fair that we are taking that much"?

 

See, we do agree. I'm fine with that also.

 

The maximum amount I'd be willing to pay? I have no idea. I've never thought of that before. I'd say 30% is really, really pushing it. The government shouldn't need 30% of my income. But that's off the top of my head, and I can't back that up with any numbers.

i agree, 30% feels right for some reason. but again, this misses the point. is should be based on purchasing power, not percentage.

 

think about traffic tickets. a person who makes minimum wage is way more punished by a $140 speeding ticket than someone making $150,000 a year. same penalty, very different results. 30% in taxes actually affects how i will spend my money and the decisions i make. 30% of romney's income is nothing to him. other factors are capital gains, investments (including property), and savings. how romney only paid 13% is baffling (as is his massive ira).

 

OK....Thanks for at least throwing out a number. Most people won't even do that.

 

Personally, I think that should be 20%. So, let's average it out and say that figure is 25%.

 

I personally believe this is how it should work.

 

I believe we should have a constitutional amendment that states the government can not take more than 25% of your income in taxes.

 

So, get rid of all the loop holes. AND, you can still have a graduated tax schedule. There will be some that don't pay any taxes. Some that maybe pay 10%, 15% and then the most wealthy in the land pay 25%.

 

THEN, we also need a balanced budget amendment.

 

SO....what happens?

 

If you are middle class and you are paying 15%, you don't WANT the government to increase spending because that will probably cause your rate to go to 25%.

 

If you don't pay anything, you will have the motivation to not demand more spending from the government otherwise you might be bumped up into the 10% tax bracket.

[navysker]

So, it's ok for Mitt to ask to see his potential VP tax returns but it's not ok for the American public to see Mitt's. http://www.rawstory....for-vp-vetting/

From your own link: “I’m not a business,” Romney insisted. “We have a process in this country, which was established by law, which provides for the transparency which candidates are required to meet. I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.” Now, we may not like it, but if what he has released satisfies the legal requirements...............too bad.

 

So I am assuming with this statement you just made it definately clears all the Democrats who did the same thing that you pointed out a few quotes above.

[carlfense]

OK....Thanks for at least throwing out a number. Most people won't even do that.

 

Personally, I think that should be 20%. So, let's average it out and say that figure is 25%.

 

I personally believe this is how it should work.

 

I believe we should have a constitutional amendment that states the government can not take more than 25% of your income in taxes.

 

So, get rid of all the loop holes. AND, you can still have a graduated tax schedule. There will be some that don't pay any taxes. Some that maybe pay 10%, 15% and then the most wealthy in the land pay 25%.

 

THEN, we also need a balanced budget amendment.

 

SO....what happens?

 

If you are middle class and you are paying 15%, you don't WANT the government to increase spending because that will probably cause your rate to go to 25%.

 

If you don't pay anything, you will have the motivation to not demand more spending from the government otherwise you might be bumped up into the 10% tax bracket.

What will you cut to offset the reduced revenue?

[sd'sker]

Why, why, why, why is welfare an excuse for Romney not to pay taxes like everyone else? This is ridiculous.

 

 

I am fine with Romney paying more if more people are forced to also pay into the system also.

 

Here is a question I often ask and I almost never get an answer.

 

No matter how much you make, what is the MAXIMUM that is fair for you to have to pay in taxes? In other words, what percentage of someone's income that the government would take that you would sit back and say...."Oooooo.....that just isn't fair that we are taking that much"?

 

See, we do agree. I'm fine with that also.

 

The maximum amount I'd be willing to pay? I have no idea. I've never thought of that before. I'd say 30% is really, really pushing it. The government shouldn't need 30% of my income. But that's off the top of my head, and I can't back that up with any numbers.

i agree, 30% feels right for some reason. but again, this misses the point. is should be based on purchasing power, not percentage.

 

think about traffic tickets. a person who makes minimum wage is way more punished by a $140 speeding ticket than someone making $150,000 a year. same penalty, very different results. 30% in taxes actually affects how i will spend my money and the decisions i make. 30% of romney's income is nothing to him. other factors are capital gains, investments (including property), and savings. how romney only paid 13% is baffling (as is his massive ira).

If you are middle class and you are paying 15%, you don't WANT the government to increase spending because that will probably cause your rate to go to 25%.

why is gov't spending inherently bad?

[sd'sker]

Sorry, but that bolded statement is a load of crap. Not trying to be mean but this is something I am passionate about.

 

I have studied nutrition a lot. I have been that person who has been extremely unhealthy and since the beginning of the year I have lost over 55 lbs and am in better shape now than I was in my 20s. (45 years old now)

 

I would argue with ANYONE that claims eating healthy is more expensive. Processed and prepared foods in boxes or cans are flat out more expensive than if you make meals from fresh products. I save a HUGE amount of money in food compared to what I used to eat. And, it isn't just different foods, it is the QUANTITY of food I used to eat.

 

Heck, even when I go out to eat at a restaurant, I can find equal or cheaper HEALTHY products on the menu then what I used to eat.

 

Sorry, that one doesn't cut it.

so you used to eat a lot of unhealthy food, now you eat less healthy food. would the difference in quantity not help offset the costs? but the fact of the matter is, dollar for dollar, the best value for calories is unhealthy food.

[sd'sker]

venture capital can be good. hedge funds are bad. you can not just say 'investments create jobs' and walk away.

 

Sorry if I spent time last evening with my family instead of discussing this with you.

i was speaking figuratively when i said walk away. 'investments create jobs' is a broad and shallow statement. although, to be quite frank, your family can wait.