2012 Presidential Election Polls

[sd'sker]

Looking at some recent, but a few weeks old, clips of Barack and Michelle Obama. It's funny - a weird part of me wants him to lose this election so he can get on with his life. Beautiful wife, beautiful girls, he's still young, he's got a lot of time left.

 

I shudder to think what four years of Romneyshambles will look like. But Barack Obama the person - I may wish better things on him than his winning re-election.

it is incredible he still wants this job. however, if america elects romney, we get what we deserve.

I'm not really plugged into this political season.

 

What do a couple of you Obama supporters fear most about Romney being elected?

the privatization of medicare and social security. tax cuts "across the board" that end up getting paid by the middle class one way or the other. the deregulation of wall street and the environment. something that is not mentioned here (which is fine by me), but the reversal of women's rights. increased wealth gap. more wars. cuts where there should not, nor need not, be, while we increase spending where it should not. preferential treatment to corporate and the individual wealthy interests over the middle class. a ham-fisted reversal of aca. these are all of my fears.

[carlfense]

What is good for the American who makes 1mil/yr is good for his employee who makes 50K.

What facts support your opinion?

[knapplc]

The worry hope is that employers are now feeling comfortable enough to send such emails.

 

This sort of email is more a threat to the concept of class warfare.

 

It attacks the notion that there are different outcomes for the employer/employee when the government interferes through taxes/regulation.

 

What is good for the American who makes 1mil/yr is good for his employee who makes 50K.

 

That a tax on the wealthy is a tax on the middle class and poor.

 

For some, these statements are inconceivable. For some, class warfare is all they understand.

 

 

Class Warfare! Class Warfare!

 

 

This must be some sort of "trigger" word for you?

 

I'm intrigued!

 

Do you dismiss the concept outright? Or are simply tired of hearing it used?

 

Please explain...

 

I think we are probably both big fans of democracy, and our little 200+yr experiment.

 

When I see politicians trying to gain power through "divide and conquer" tactics, I fear for the survival of our democracy.

 

There couldn't be an easier time in history to argue against the promotion of "class warfare" than right now. We are seeing democracies crumble before our eyes in Europe.

 

You used the word. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of it.

 

I guess I'm still naively surprised at how easily Fox sets those hooks - and how deep they go.

[sd'sker]

Looking at some recent, but a few weeks old, clips of Barack and Michelle Obama. It's funny - a weird part of me wants him to lose this election so he can get on with his life. Beautiful wife, beautiful girls, he's still young, he's got a lot of time left.

 

I shudder to think what four years of Romneyshambles will look like. But Barack Obama the person - I may wish better things on him than his winning re-election.

it is incredible he still wants this job. however, if america elects romney, we get what we deserve.

 

 

It really is incredible. Many times when someone realizes they are completely in way over their head they will bow out and admit it.

obviously that was not my point. also, when has anyone ever done that, anyway?

 

where exactly do you think obama has been way over his head?

[Conga3]

What is good for the American who makes 1mil/yr is good for his employee who makes 50K.

What facts support your opinion?

 

The statement refers to the relationship between employer and employee - the amounts are irrelevant.

 

We live in a capitalistic society, which simply means we have control over our own "capital" to risk it through investment.

 

When someone in the "investor" class (i.e. business owners) risks their capital, in order to increase its value, sometimes a direct relationship with an employee is created, but in a free market there will always be indirect relationship created.

 

My statement refers to this relationship. Employee/Employee Investor/Worker

 

The email Siegel wrote tries to explain this. When the government takes action to make it harder for the investor to make a profit on the capital that is risked, the investor could decide the risk is no longer worth it.

 

When investors hold onto their money instead of risking it, jobs and opportunities are not created.

 

The risk/reward consideration is the heart of a free economy. Both investors and workers must decide for themselves to enter into business together, so both may benefit.

[knapplc]

Usually by now, a retired DOJ attorney or judge, or whatever would have been interviewed by the press, asked to comment on if Siegel could now become the target of a prosecution for violating that voter protection law.

 

My guess is, that if the story hasn't advanced to that point yet, all the contacts that the reporters have questioned regarding this have more or less said there is no case to be made...

 

Can you cite another case where such a timeline has happened this quickly?

 

Just wanted to see if there was going to be an answer to this one.

[Conga3]

You used the word. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of it.

 

I guess I'm still naively surprised at how easily Fox sets those hooks - and how deep they go.

You only replied with emoticons... no points were made.

 

I respect your views and opinions. I believe you have formed them through your own experiences and search for truths.

 

If you aren't interested in my views and opinions simply because you've heard them on a cable news channel...

 

...well that's sad. I got the impression you were more open minded than that.

 

For the record, I can't stand "newstainment" so I actively try to avoid TV news on all channels.

 

There's something about ASSuming and making ASSumpitions we should both try to avoid....

[BigRedBuster]

Looking at some recent, but a few weeks old, clips of Barack and Michelle Obama. It's funny - a weird part of me wants him to lose this election so he can get on with his life. Beautiful wife, beautiful girls, he's still young, he's got a lot of time left.

 

I shudder to think what four years of Romneyshambles will look like. But Barack Obama the person - I may wish better things on him than his winning re-election.

it is incredible he still wants this job. however, if america elects romney, we get what we deserve.

 

 

It really is incredible. Many times when someone realizes they are completely in way over their head they will bow out and admit it.

obviously that was not my point. also, when has anyone ever done that, anyway?

 

where exactly do you think obama has been way over his head?

 

The entire last four years.

[Conga3]

Usually by now, a retired DOJ attorney or judge, or whatever would have been interviewed by the press, asked to comment on if Siegel could now become the target of a prosecution for violating that voter protection law.

 

My guess is, that if the story hasn't advanced to that point yet, all the contacts that the reporters have questioned regarding this have more or less said there is no case to be made...

 

Can you cite another case where such a timeline has happened this quickly?

 

Just wanted to see if there was going to be an answer to this one.

No is the answer I guess. I'm not terribly interested in breaking down the timeline of this story, finding a comparative story, and matching up timelines... seems like busy work.

 

My point is, all these news organizations have lawyers on speed dial.

 

It's not unreasonable to think some of them made the same connection you did to "voter protection" laws..

 

I think we'd both agree, if this Romney supporter just did something that is going to land him in court defending the email... the story would take that turn as soon as a news person could put the sound bites together.

 

if it hasn't happened yet, me thinks the answer their getting from their lawyers is, no way prosecution would consider pursuing a case against Siegel. that's not the sound bite they want.

[knapplc]

You used the word. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of it.

 

I guess I'm still naively surprised at how easily Fox sets those hooks - and how deep they go.

You only replied with emoticons... no points were made.

 

I respect your views and opinions. I believe you have formed them through your own experiences and search for truths.

 

If you aren't interested in my views and opinions simply because you've heard them on a cable news channel...

 

...well that's sad. I got the impression you were more open minded than that.

 

For the record, I can't stand "newstainment" so I actively try to avoid TV news on all channels.

 

There's something about ASSuming and making ASSumpitions we should both try to avoid....

 

Not apologizing. Think what you want. That "class warfare" derp is a hallmark of Fox News. Or a Luntzian creation - take your pick.

 

I frankly don't care where it came from, it's nonsense and anyone who repeats it has no place discussing how "open-minded" anyone else is.

[BigRedBuster]

You used the word. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of it.

 

I guess I'm still naively surprised at how easily Fox sets those hooks - and how deep they go.

You only replied with emoticons... no points were made.

 

I respect your views and opinions. I believe you have formed them through your own experiences and search for truths.

 

If you aren't interested in my views and opinions simply because you've heard them on a cable news channel...

 

...well that's sad. I got the impression you were more open minded than that.

 

For the record, I can't stand "newstainment" so I actively try to avoid TV news on all channels.

 

There's something about ASSuming and making ASSumpitions we should both try to avoid....

 

Not apologizing. Think what you want. That "class warfare" derp is a hallmark of Fox News. Or a Luntzian creation - take your pick.

 

I frankly don't care where it came from, it's nonsense and anyone who repeats it has no place discussing how "open-minded" anyone else is.

BS...it's not a Foxnews fabrication. It is a fact that Democrats have perfected class warfare.

[knapplc]

Usually by now, a retired DOJ attorney or judge, or whatever would have been interviewed by the press, asked to comment on if Siegel could now become the target of a prosecution for violating that voter protection law.

 

My guess is, that if the story hasn't advanced to that point yet, all the contacts that the reporters have questioned regarding this have more or less said there is no case to be made...

 

Can you cite another case where such a timeline has happened this quickly?

 

Just wanted to see if there was going to be an answer to this one.

No is the answer I guess. I'm not terribly interested in breaking down the timeline of this story, finding a comparative story, and matching up timelines... seems like busy work.

 

My point is, all these news organizations have lawyers on speed dial.

 

It's not unreasonable to think some of them made the same connection you did to "voter protection" laws..

 

I think we'd both agree, if this Romney supporter just did something that is going to land him in court defending the email... the story would take that turn as soon as a news person could put the sound bites together.

 

if it hasn't happened yet, me thinks the answer their getting from their lawyers is, no way prosecution would consider pursuing a case against Siegel. that's not the sound bite they want.

 

At least you explained your copout. Thanks for that.

[knapplc]

It is a fact that Democrats have perfected class warfare.

 

Facts are demonstrable. Show me.

[sd'sker]

Looking at some recent, but a few weeks old, clips of Barack and Michelle Obama. It's funny - a weird part of me wants him to lose this election so he can get on with his life. Beautiful wife, beautiful girls, he's still young, he's got a lot of time left.

 

I shudder to think what four years of Romneyshambles will look like. But Barack Obama the person - I may wish better things on him than his winning re-election.

it is incredible he still wants this job. however, if america elects romney, we get what we deserve.

 

 

It really is incredible. Many times when someone realizes they are completely in way over their head they will bow out and admit it.

obviously that was not my point. also, when has anyone ever done that, anyway?

 

where exactly do you think obama has been way over his head?

 

The entire last four years.

wow! bigredbuster with the knockout punch. with all the eloquence of the great bard homer. all the thoroughness of the great philologist j.r.r. tolkien. all the wit of the great satirist h.l. mencken. all the depth and nuance of the great philosopher nietzsche. well played, good sir.

[Conga3]

Not apologizing. Think what you want. That "class warfare" derp is a hallmark of Fox News. Or a Luntzian creation - take your pick.

 

I frankly don't care where it came from, it's nonsense and anyone who repeats it has no place discussing how "open-minded" anyone else is.

 

While it might be a "catch phase" now used by your friends on Fox, it's roots come from the days of the founding fathers who pondered the inherent weaknesses of a democracy and what could make it all come crashing down.

 

I use it because to me it's a word that properly explains the concept of an inherent weakness to democracy and how that weakness is being exploited.

 

Maybe you disagree that it's a weakness?