Gulf of ton kin did you get pulled into that war?

[akita]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident It has been declassified that Vietnam was a false flag event! That means men of this board should of never been over there to fight. I would like to hear your opinions. If you were a desk Jockey and sat in the back your opinions will be heard, but not as respected from the Infantry types and how they feel now. I am pretty sure the Infantry types had a much different experience. Also I take nothing away from what you did. You followed orders and did your job and I respect that. What I want is honest answers and how you feel about 56 thousand dead Americans and 1 million Vietnamese dead over a False flag event. Please do not post any pictures here of combat unless they are taste full. I have seen my Fathers pictures of the Bush and they make the photos that have popped up on the lame stream media look tame!

[Excel]

I don't know the degree to which our Navy was actually involved in the incident. Was it to the extent that the Administration played it up to be? Probably not. It certainly led to what was a poorly justified adventure and one of the biggest blunders in our short history.

 

Not speaking as a veteran of the conflict though my Grandfather was rounding out his Army career at the early stages of the ramp up and my Uncle was just beginning his, part of which he spent flying dustoff out of Nha Trang, so I think I have a fairly good handle on it. Having served during a different wartime I'd say that the justifications matter very little day to day. If you were to ask me what sustains and drives me its not 9/11 now and I doubt that it was Tonkin then. Those events might play in to why you enlist, and they certainly do now and say in WW2, but your buddies keep you going, that surrogate family is the prime motivation. Not Mom, baseball and apple pie. What Uncle Sam says and does matters but your brothers and now sisters in uniform matter far more day to day. Working with them, suffering with them, fighting with them and just simply being there. That fellowship of Soldiers is unlike anything found on the civilian side and it's what makes the Army great.

 

I say that to put things in perspective. Vietnam was a sham and a damn shame but that doesn't diminish the service of those that were there. They fought for the same reasons that all men fight, not Tonkin. In many ways they were the greatest generation, or at least the greatest generation of Soldiers. It is easy to serve when the whole nation supports you and much harder to wear the uniform when it is the object of public scorn.

[akita]

I don't know the degree to which our Navy was actually involved in the incident. Was it to the extent that the Administration played it up to be? Probably not. It certainly led to what was a poorly justified adventure and one of the biggest blunders in our short history.

 

Not speaking as a veteran of the conflict though my Grandfather was rounding out his Army career at the early stages of the ramp up and my Uncle was just beginning his, part of which he spent flying dustoff out of Nha Trang, so I think I have a fairly good handle on it. Having served during a different wartime I'd say that the justifications matter very little day to day. If you were to ask me what sustains and drives me its not 9/11 now and I doubt that it was Tonkin then. Those events might play in to why you enlist, and they certainly do now and say in WW2, but your buddies keep you going, that surrogate family is the prime motivation. Not Mom, baseball and apple pie. What Uncle Sam says and does matters but your brothers and now sisters in uniform matter far more day to day. Working with them, suffering with them, fighting with them and just simply being there. That fellowship of Soldiers is unlike anything found on the civilian side and it's what makes the Army great.

 

I say that to put things in perspective. Vietnam was a sham and a damn shame but that doesn't diminish the service of those that were there. They fought for the same reasons that all men fight, not Tonkin. In many ways they were the greatest generation, or at least the greatest generation of Soldiers. It is easy to serve when the whole nation supports you and much harder to wear the uniform when it is the object of public scorn.

Bucky. I will never rip on the VET that does the operation. In fact the operations I know about I was not on were incredible. Did i agree with the Wars? NO, I did not and to this day do not support the wars! But I do support the guys on the ground that have to come home. I hope that makes sense.

[Excel]

I don't think that agreeing with the war should even be a factor, not for Soldiers. If the order is lawful and moral you execute. I'm not accusing anyone of being unsupportive.

 

The decision, very much a political one, especially now, is for the civilian. They have a duty to act, protest and petition if they disagree with the deployment of our Military. That burden is on them. Service Members can vote and donate money but to a large extent input ends there and there is far more to the political process than elections.

 

I think there is also an implied civic duty for all those that agree with a war, like the low-scale ones we see now that don't require conscription, to serve if they are able.

 

I am not disgusted with peace nicks and those that fundamentally disagree with a war. I am horrified by those that agree with and support a conflict and shirk their responsibilities. "Yea them but oh not me or my son."

[MLB 51]

I don't know the degree to which our Navy was actually involved in the incident. Was it to the extent that the Administration played it up to be? Probably not. It certainly led to what was a poorly justified adventure and one of the biggest blunders in our short history.

 

Not speaking as a veteran of the conflict though my Grandfather was rounding out his Army career at the early stages of the ramp up and my Uncle was just beginning his, part of which he spent flying dustoff out of Nha Trang, so I think I have a fairly good handle on it. Having served during a different wartime I'd say that the justifications matter very little day to day. If you were to ask me what sustains and drives me its not 9/11 now and I doubt that it was Tonkin then. Those events might play in to why you enlist, and they certainly do now and say in WW2, but your buddies keep you going, that surrogate family is the prime motivation. Not Mom, baseball and apple pie. What Uncle Sam says and does matters but your brothers and now sisters in uniform matter far more day to day. Working with them, suffering with them, fighting with them and just simply being there. That fellowship of Soldiers is unlike anything found on the civilian side and it's what makes the Army great.

 

I say that to put things in perspective. Vietnam was a sham and a damn shame but that doesn't diminish the service of those that were there. They fought for the same reasons that all men fight, not Tonkin. In many ways they were the greatest generation, or at least the greatest generation of Soldiers. It is easy to serve when the whole nation supports you and much harder to wear the uniform when it is the object of public scorn.

Had to +1 this. I remember my time in the service. I remember the people I served with better. I miss a lot of them. Thank you both for what you give or have given to this country.

[knapplc]

Whatever the historians want to label Vietnam doesn't matter. What matters is our guys went over there and fought and died and did their duty in a sh#t war that we should never have been involved in. It was a politician's war, but the grunts on the ground paid the price.

 

My father was a ground-pounding Marine. Perfectly good kid, went over there and got all messed up in the head. Came back, married a girl, had a couple of kids and then just lost interest in anything. Drank himself to death a few years later. His story isn't uncommon - thousands and thousands of guys just like him survived the war but not the next few years after.

 

It was a bad scene. Not a good time in America's history. But screw the labels historians want to put on it, and screw the political BS. A veteran is a veteran, and should be afforded the respect as such. No rewriting of history is going to change how I feel about Vietnam, the guys who fought in it, or the idiots who sent them over there.

[akita]

Whatever the historians want to label Vietnam doesn't matter. What matters is our guys went over there and fought and died and did their duty in a sh#t war that we should never have been involved in. It was a politician's war, but the grunts on the ground paid the price.

 

My father was a ground-pounding Marine. Perfectly good kid, went over there and got all messed up in the head. Came back, married a girl, had a couple of kids and then just lost interest in anything. Drank himself to death a few years later. His story isn't uncommon - thousands and thousands of guys just like him survived the war but not the next few years after.

 

It was a bad scene. Not a good time in America's history. But screw the labels historians want to put on it, and screw the political BS. A veteran is a veteran, and should be afforded the respect as such. No rewriting of history is going to change how I feel about Vietnam, the guys who fought in it, or the idiots who sent them over there.

I agree 100% with you knapp. What I am still amazed at is that not one person has ever stood trial for that lie is all. Really sad.

[strigori]

Whatever the historians want to label Vietnam doesn't matter. What matters is our guys went over there and fought and died and did their duty in a sh#t war that we should never have been involved in. It was a politician's war, but the grunts on the ground paid the price.

 

My father was a ground-pounding Marine. Perfectly good kid, went over there and got all messed up in the head. Came back, married a girl, had a couple of kids and then just lost interest in anything. Drank himself to death a few years later. His story isn't uncommon - thousands and thousands of guys just like him survived the war but not the next few years after.

 

It was a bad scene. Not a good time in America's history. But screw the labels historians want to put on it, and screw the political BS. A veteran is a veteran, and should be afforded the respect as such. No rewriting of history is going to change how I feel about Vietnam, the guys who fought in it, or the idiots who sent them over there.

I agree 100% with you knapp. What I am still amazed at is that not one person has ever stood trial for that lie is all. Really sad.

Not surprising really. The reason they release info like that when they do is most, if not all, of the people in that decision process are now dead.

[akita]

Whatever the historians want to label Vietnam doesn't matter. What matters is our guys went over there and fought and died and did their duty in a sh#t war that we should never have been involved in. It was a politician's war, but the grunts on the ground paid the price.

 

My father was a ground-pounding Marine. Perfectly good kid, went over there and got all messed up in the head. Came back, married a girl, had a couple of kids and then just lost interest in anything. Drank himself to death a few years later. His story isn't uncommon - thousands and thousands of guys just like him survived the war but not the next few years after.

 

It was a bad scene. Not a good time in America's history. But screw the labels historians want to put on it, and screw the political BS. A veteran is a veteran, and should be afforded the respect as such. No rewriting of history is going to change how I feel about Vietnam, the guys who fought in it, or the idiots who sent them over there.

I agree 100% with you knapp. What I am still amazed at is that not one person has ever stood trial for that lie is all. Really sad.

Not surprising really. The reason they release info like that when they do is most, if not all, of the people in that decision process are now dead.

Kissinger is still alive! Just burns me up when this stuff happens is all.

[T_O_Bull]

I got Ol' Glory hanging out in my garage

And one on the chrome post flying in my yard

I got a patch on my jacket - says 101st

And a sticker on my bumper says don't mess with her

 

THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

I HOLD 'EM DEAR TO MY HEART

WITH ALL OF MY MIGHT

I STAND UP AND FIGHT

FOR EVERY STAR AND EVERY STRIPE

YEAH, I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THE MEN AND THE WOMEN

WHO RISK THEIR LIVES FOR OUR CAUSE

LET ME TELL YA SON

WE'RE STILL NUMBER ONE

AND THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

 

I pledge allegiance to this nation and the eagle flyin' high

I'm the first to shoot off fireworks on the Fourth of July

And God bless the people who love this great land

Ah, when it comes to freedom, UNITED WE STAND

 

THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

I HOLD 'EM DEAR TO MY HEART

WITH ALL OF MY MIGHT

I STAND UP AND FIGHT

FOR EVERY STAR AND EVERY STRIPE

YEAH, I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THE MEN AND THE WOMEN

WHO RISK THEIR LIVES FOR OUR CAUSE

LET ME TELL YOU SON

WE'RE STILL NUMBER ONE

AND THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

--pause--

 

THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

 

THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THE MEN AND THE WOMEN

WHO RISK THEIR LIVES FOR OUR CAUSE

LET ME TELL YOU SON

WE'RE STILL NUMBER ONE

AND THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

 

WE NEVER WILL, WE NEVER HAVE

AND YOU BETTER BE GLAD

THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

T_O_B

Proud VNW VET