Global Warming

[carlfense]

Make imports abide by the same laws we do. Brazil has very high tariffs on products being imported that directly compete with an industry in their country. I'm not specifically for a blanket high tariff. But, is there a way to put a high tariff on a product being produced in a factory that doesn't abide by our environmental laws? Is there a way to put a tariff on a products that are not produced with employees not making our minimum wage?

I'm not sure how that could be enforced but it could be something to look at.

 

I know of a product that is illegal to produce in the US with lead in it. BUT, it can be produced in China and imported with lead in it and sold. How? Because the law says it simply can't be produced here with lead. BUT, it can be SOLD here with lead.

Sounds like the law should be changed to say that it can't be sold with lead.

[BigRedBuster]

BUT.....that will never happen because politicians are scared to death of the Chinese due to them owning so much of our debt. So....instead of admitting that, they will campaign on stiffening employment and environmental law even more and then ridicule companies who ship their jobs over seas.

 

It really is a great way of getting the majority of people to vote for you after all....who wouldn't be for cleaner water and air, higher wages and being against that big evil company that closed the plant on the edge of town?

[carlfense]

BUT.....that will never happen because politicians are scared to death of the Chinese due to them owning so much of our debt. So....instead of admitting that, they will campaign on stiffening employment and environmental law even more and then ridicule companies who ship their jobs over seas.

What? China needs our markets a lot more than we need their loans. In fact, China holds a small percentage of our debt . . . which contradicts what you seem to be asserting when you said "due to them owning so much of our debt."

 

 

It really is a great way of getting the majority of people to vote for you after all....who wouldn't be for cleaner water and air, higher wages and being against that big evil company that closed the plant on the edge of town?

Excellent questions. How would you answer them?

[BigRedBuster]

Your chart is impressive. But, they are our largest foreign owner of our debt. Even though they appear to own a small part, they hold a certain level of power over us. Sad but true. Our countries are very sadly tied very tightly together.

 

LINK

 

You are correct, China needs our markets. BUT, my proposal would eliminate their competitiveness in our markets and drastically shrink what they would be importing to the US. That would be a HUGE threat to their economy and they could take drastic measures to secure their future.

 

Contrary to popular belief, companies DON"T WANT to deal with having stuff made in China and imported to the US. It is literally a pain in the azz. So, if the competitive advantage to doing it is eliminated, that manufacturing is brought back to the US.

 

That destroys the Chinese side of the relationship that is "too big to fail" as described in this article. If China no longer has this an advantage in this market, they have no reason to support it with their debt.

All of that is why American politicians are scared to death to threaten China's economy with trade restrictions.

 

 

 

 

I would answer them by saying I want clean air and water and a high wage also. BUT, a company can not compete with that if the playing field is not level. Right now we have probably the strictest labor and environmental laws combined as any country in the world. I'm not for relaxing them. I AM for forcing other countries to play by the same rules if they want to import their products to our market.

[carlfense]

I would answer them by saying I want clean air and water and a high wage also. BUT, a company can not compete with that if the playing field is not level. Right now we have probably the strictest labor and environmental laws combined as any country in the world. I'm not for relaxing them. I AM for forcing other countries to play by the same rules if they want to import their products to our market.

Can you back this up?

[BigRedBuster]

If I have time, I try to look something up. May be I will be able to and maybe I can't. (Pssst....that's why the world "probably" is in there) BUT, it is obvious that we have much stricter labor and environmental laws than countries like Mexico, China and other pacific rim countries that we are competing against directly for jobs.

[carlfense]

If I have time, I try to look something up. May be I will be able to and maybe I can't. (Pssst....that's why the world "probably" is in there) BUT, it is obvious that we have much stricter labor and environmental laws than countries like Mexico, China and other pacific rim countries that we are competing against directly for jobs.

I don't think that Mexico, China, and the Pac Rim countries are the countries that we should be comparing to the United States.

[sd'sker]

If I have time, I try to look something up. May be I will be able to and maybe I can't. (Pssst....that's why the world "probably" is in there) BUT, it is obvious that we have much stricter labor and environmental laws than countries like Mexico, China and other pacific rim countries that we are competing against directly for jobs.

I don't think that Mexico, China, and the Pac Rim countries are the countries that we should be comparing to the United States.

it is funny that he would even compare us to them. they are peasant countries, yet his solution is that we replicate their business models.

[BigRedBuster]

If I have time, I try to look something up. May be I will be able to and maybe I can't. (Pssst....that's why the world "probably" is in there) BUT, it is obvious that we have much stricter labor and environmental laws than countries like Mexico, China and other pacific rim countries that we are competing against directly for jobs.

I don't think that Mexico, China, and the Pac Rim countries are the countries that we should be comparing to the United States.

it is funny that he would even compare us to them. they are peasant countries, yet his solution is that we replicate their business models.

 

Please show me where I have said anything of the sort.

 

From my post above:

I would answer them by saying I want clean air and water and a high wage also. BUT, a company can not compete with that if the playing field is not level. Right now we have probably the strictest labor and environmental laws combined as any country in the world. I'm not for relaxing them. I AM for forcing other countries to play by the same rules if they want to import their products to our market.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

If I have time, I try to look something up. May be I will be able to and maybe I can't. (Pssst....that's why the world "probably" is in there) BUT, it is obvious that we have much stricter labor and environmental laws than countries like Mexico, China and other pacific rim countries that we are competing against directly for jobs.

I don't think that Mexico, China, and the Pac Rim countries are the countries that we should be comparing to the United States.

 

From this comment, you are obviously completely missing my point. I AM NOT ASKING FOR OUR LAWS TO BE BROUGHT DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.

[carlfense]

From this comment, you are obviously completely missing my point. I AM NOT ASKING FOR OUR LAWS TO BE BROUGHT DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.

I understand that. You want their laws brought up to our level. I don't know that this is feasible.

 

Have you ever said that you don't want more regulations in the US because it would make us less competitive? That would seem awfully close to your all caps statement.

[sd'sker]

If I have time, I try to look something up. May be I will be able to and maybe I can't. (Pssst....that's why the world "probably" is in there) BUT, it is obvious that we have much stricter labor and environmental laws than countries like Mexico, China and other pacific rim countries that we are competing against directly for jobs.

I don't think that Mexico, China, and the Pac Rim countries are the countries that we should be comparing to the United States.

it is funny that he would even compare us to them. they are peasant countries, yet his solution is that we replicate their business models.

 

Please show me where I have said anything of the sort.

 

From my post above:

I would answer them by saying I want clean air and water and a high wage also. BUT, a company can not compete with that if the playing field is not level. Right now we have probably the strictest labor and environmental laws combined as any country in the world. I'm not for relaxing them. I AM for forcing other countries to play by the same rules if they want to import their products to our market.

 

 

fair enough. i apologize.

[BigRedBuster]

To Carl:

 

What????

 

What I have said is, if you continue to put more and more regulations on American manufacturer without fixing the problem (like the lead based product I pointed to earlier in this thread) of other countries not giving a sh#t, we will continue to lose jobs.

 

I have repeatedly said I do not want to relax those laws in the US. I enjoy our environment and safe working environments. As a manufacturer, then don't expect me to be able to compete with a product that can be manufactured 30-40% less expensively. You can talk all you want about advertising "American Made"....for the most part, the public doesn't give a flying rats azz.

[BigRedBuster]

Here is a report from 2009 on the Chinese steel industry.

 

LINK

 

From the executive summary:

 

 

There are also economic considerations. The Chinese steel industry benefits economically from

environmental requirements that are less stringent than those the U.S. and many other countries have

adopted. Curtailing pollution requires considerable capital investment and continued spending to operate

and maintain pollution control equipment. The failure of many Chinese steel companies to adequately

invest in pollution control may have contributed to China’s growing strength in markets around the world,

including the U.S. market. An economist serving in China’s Ministry of Commerce told The New York

Times that, with respect to steel, “the shortfall of environmental protection is one of the main reasons why

our exports are cheaper.” Another reason the official cited was cheap energy.

 

The steel industry in the US has been devastated by imports. It literally is non-existent anymore and that was literally hundreds of thousands of jobs that left. I don't want the US steel industry manufacturing and polluting like the Chinese steel industry. I want the Chinese steal industry manufacturing as though it were in the US under our laws if it wants to import those products to the US.

[carlfense]

What I have said is, if you continue to put more and more regulations on American manufacturer without fixing the problem (like the lead based product I pointed to earlier in this thread) of other countries not giving a sh#t, we will continue to lose jobs.

What if the "problem" that we seek to fix is raw sewage pumped into a river? Should we end that even though Chinese factories allow it?

 

I have repeatedly said I do not want to relax those laws in the US. I enjoy our environment and safe working environments. As a manufacturer, then don't expect me to be able to compete with a product that can be manufactured 30-40% less expensively. You can talk all you want about advertising "American Made"....for the most part, the public doesn't give a flying rats azz.

But I think (could be wrong . . . hard to keep track) that you've opposed new regulations because they might reduce American competitiveness. If so . . . you're choosing to hold us to a lower standard instead of your professed goal of raising the standards of a country like China to match our own.