Obamacare and Healthcare Spending

[StPaulHusker]

Is there a definition for the health care spending? I mean, is it based on average cost of Dr visits, ER visits, cancer treatments? I am curious where the savings are. My family went to the ER, doctor, clinics, a lot this past year and my bills weren't any less and my insurance premiums are going up at the next fiscal year.

 

I ask this seriously and there is no sarcasm intended. I am genuinely interested because I don't know what "health care costs" means when it comes to this.

[carlfense]

Is that a crazier belief than thinking a bill that is signed into law influences industries one to two years before it is ever signed so much so that it causes major changes in cost increases? Especially when there are easily other major factors that are influencing the industry during that time.

I'm a little surprised that you keep dodging what should be a straightforward question. Does your definition differ from the one that I provided? If so, how?

 

I promise that I'll respond to the bold if you could be so kind as to provide an answer to my question.

[BigRedBuster]

If you are playing games with the word affect or effect, you can play all the games you want. I can understand why you would want to deflect.

 

I provided a time line in a link that shows when certain changes to health care happen and you are obviously choosing to ignore it.

 

LINK

 

Some things have happened already. But, the major changes happen in 2014. Now, yes, there are some things companies are doing now to prepare for that. But, please explain to me how that was happening as early as 1-2 years prior to the bill even being signed into law when nobody even knew what the law was going to be. Heck, the Democrats that pushed it through didn't even know at the time.

 

And, yes, I am very close to the insurance and health care industry. I have been through several seminars on this issue preparing as an employer for 2014 to hit. I have been in a number of meetings with insurance people over the last several years. Interestingly, up until recently, most insurance people would answer questions as...."well, we really don't know". This is 3-5 years after you claim this bill had major effects on the industry in a positive way.

 

From the link above.

 

Economists concur that the deep recession and sluggish recovery are the main reasons for slowing growth in spending. During the recession, millions of Americans lost their jobs, and thus their insurance coverage; millions more struggling families were reluctant to see a physician or undergo a procedure. But the slowdown in health costs proved steeper than forecast. It also occurred in populations whose health spending was mostly sheltered from the economic gyrations, like Medicare patients.

 

That led economists to surmise that other factors were at play. In new research, the Kaiser Family Foundation estimated that the recession accounted for about three-quarters of the lower spending trajectory, with the rest attributed to other factors not directly related to the economy. Professor Cutler of Harvard calculates that the recession accounted for about 37 percent.

 

Among other factors, the studies found that rising out-of-pocket payments had played a major role in the decline. The proportion of workers with employer-sponsored health insurance enrolled in a plan that required a deductible climbed to about three-quarters in 2012 from about half in 2006, the Kaiser Family Foundation has found. Moreover, those deductibles — the amount a person needs to pay before insurance steps in to cover claims — have risen sharply. That exposes workers to a larger share of their own health costs, and generally forces them to spend less.

 

Now, I tend to believe this. Around that time, we went to a much higher deductible policy at our company. Our health care costs were sky rocketing and we needed to do something. One reason for the cost increase was that employees had absolutely no concept of what they were spending/costing the company on health care. The higher deductible caused them to be more of a consumer. A large number of employers went to this around that time (as explained in the article). Since then, our employees use health care less. To my knowledge, they aren't less healthy. they just don't go running to the doctor for every little runny nose or they ask for generic drugs instead of name brand.

 

Funny thing is.....We are told we will have to reduce our deductibles down to roughly what they were before sometime over the next two years because the Affordable Care Act won't allow it. I guess people shouldn't be good consumers of health care like other services.

[carlfense]

If you are playing games with the word affect or effect, you can play all the games you want.

It's not playing games. It's central to the discussion. You want to claim that the ACA hasn't changed anything at this point because certain things aren't mandated until 2014. I get that.

 

What I'm trying to do is make sure that we're all on the same page. If that's the foundation on which you want to build your argument, so be it. (From my perspective it makes your argument a lot weaker.)

 

I provided a time line in a link that shows when certain changes to health care happen and you are obviously choosing to ignore it.

I'll address it just as soon as you define your argument. Please start with "take effect."

 

Now, yes, there are some things companies are doing now to prepare for that.

A hah!

 

But, please explain to me how that was happening as early as 1-2 years prior to the bill even being signed into law when nobody even knew what the law was going to be.

It's interesting that you focus only on the time prior to the ACA. I wonder why that could be?

 

And, yes, I am very close to the insurance and health care industry.

If you think that the ACA hasn't already resulted in significant changes to health care providers I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this claim.

[BigRedBuster]

Where did I say this?

 

You want to claim that the ACA hasn't changed anything at this point because certain things aren't mandated until 2014.

 

I can understand why you want to dodge the question about the decreasing started long before ACA ever even was put into law. I've explained over and over again what I meant by my question/comment and you choose to ignore it. Now, if you want to continue down that path, then I have to assume you have no argument and that is fine. I'll be done with the conversation.

[carlfense]

Where did I say this?

You want to claim that the ACA hasn't changed anything at this point because certain things aren't mandated until 2014.

It's possible that I misinterpreted your intent. I think you've referred to 2014 at least 5 times already. What was the reason for your focus on that year if not to say that the ACA hasn't changed anything to date?

 

I can understand why you want to dodge the question about the decreasing started long before ACA ever even was put into law. I've explained over and over again what I meant by my question/comment and you choose to ignore it.

If you'd like to know my main takeaway from the Chait piece, it's the following:

Of course, it’s not just that the Journal didn’t predict the health-care cost slowdown. The Journal insisted it couldn’t possibly happen. Indeed, it insisted that Obamacare would destroy — was already destroying — any possible hope for a health-care cost correction, and would instead necessarily lead to a massive increase in health-care inflation.

 

Now if you're trying to straw man my argument into a claim that the ACA alone is responsible for the decline in spending growth . . . well that's on you.

 

 

I'll be done with the conversation.

I certainly hope not.

[BigRedBuster]

Now if you're trying to straw man my argument into a claim that the ACA alone is responsible for the decline in spending growth . . . well that's on you.

 

Hey, you are the one that posted a link to an op-ed asserting this. (At least to the point I could stomach reading. Let me know if he acknowledges any other factors later in his column)

 

In no way shape or form have I said that or implied that ACA hasn't had any effect on health care. However, I bring up 2014 because that is when the major changes take place. I have provided several links in this thread showing what I am talking about here but you have chosen to ignore them and fixate on deflecting the conversation.

 

now, if you so choose to stop doing that and actually comment on what I have posted, that would be something new.

[carlfense]

Now if you're trying to straw man my argument into a claim that the ACA alone is responsible for the decline in spending growth . . . well that's on you.

Hey, you are the one that posted a link to an op-ed asserting this. (At least to the point I could stomach reading. Let me know if he acknowledges any other factors later in his column)

Oh, really? Where? Please quote that part for us. (I suspect that your imagination might have been involved . . .)

 

In no way shape or form have I said that or implied that ACA hasn't had any effect on health care. However, I bring up 2014 because that is when the major changes take place. I have provided several links in this thread showing what I am talking about here but you have chosen to ignore them and fixate on deflecting the conversation.

No. The bold is a misstatement. Many of the mandated changes in the ACA are required beginning in 2014 but you are misrepresenting what that means. In the bolded quote you say that 2014 is "when the major changes take place." That's not correct. That's when the changes are required. Major health care providers (and minor providers as well, I assume) have made significant changes in response to the ACA requirements prior to the deadline. It's just common sense . . . and your comment about your company preparing for 2014 shows that you're well aware of this trend.

 

now, if you so choose to stop doing that and actually comment on what I have posted, that would be something new.

Bold talk for someone who refuses to define the most basic component of his argument.

[knapplc]

[Someone]

I got a refund from my health insurance provider last year thanks to Obamacare.