What is so radical about the Left right now?

[knapplc]

That's a good post, BRB. Those are what I was looking for.

 

I would say, though, that all of those examples have had a lesser influence on the Left's policy than the Tea Party has with the Republicans right now. Would that be fair to say?

[BigRedBuster]

It is very difficult to say because the Dems are much more smart about it than the Republicans. They have learned how to keep the support of these groups without openly and blatantly pandering to them.

 

So....I guess we would have to ask how they keep their support?

[knapplc]

That's a pretty wide-open question, as I'm sure you know. The answer is probably myriad, and includes such things as ideological compatibility, responsibility, bribery, lack of motivation by the extremists, etc. The answer to that is probably as many and varied as each sectarian group.

[BigRedBuster]

I would agree with that. However, when I read your list of possible answers to my question, none of them make me really comfortable about a party who some how is gaining the support of these groups.

[carlfense]

Some would say that the basis for being far left is seeking equality of outcomes, regardless of effort, and attempting redistribution of wealth. Viewed in that light, I don't see how anyone could say the democratic party is anything other than generally far left.

What are you talking about when you say "seeking equality of outcomes?"

[knapplc]

To identify what the far left is doing that is comparable requires identifying what a far left position entails. Some would say that the basis for being far left is seeking equality of outcomes, regardless of effort, and attempting redistribution of wealth. Viewed in that light, I don't see how anyone could say the democratic party is anything other than generally far left. But we are being conditioned, almost brainwashed, by the media and current day politicians that equal outcomes and redistribution of wealth are not extreme positions and that they are desirable things. It is almost impossible to claim these things are in fact extreme because they are so widely considered acceptable now.

 

I would like to point out that "Some would say..." is pretty poor basis for defining anything. "Some would say" Tom Osborne was an awful coach and an evil man. That's a pretty fringe definition of TO, and not one I'd use.

 

The "redistribution of wealth" catchphrase is a "conditioned, almost brainwashed" descriptor, and to date I haven't seen anything matching the hysteria this is intended to generate. I have, however, noticed the wealthiest of Americans - who are by and large proponents of and represented by the Republican Party - increase their wealth at a far greater pace than the non-wealthy, while at the same time the American Middle Class has been shrinking. So the "redistribution of wealth" appears to be a true thing, but not in the direction the conservative media would have us believe.

[Junior]

To identify what the far left is doing that is comparable requires identifying what a far left position entails. Some would say that the basis for being far left is seeking equality of outcomes, regardless of effort, and attempting redistribution of wealth. Viewed in that light, I don't see how anyone could say the democratic party is anything other than generally far left. But we are being conditioned, almost brainwashed, by the media and current day politicians that equal outcomes and redistribution of wealth are not extreme positions and that they are desirable things. It is almost impossible to claim these things are in fact extreme because they are so widely considered acceptable now.

 

I would like to point out that "Some would say..." is pretty poor basis for defining anything. "Some would say" Tom Osborne was an awful coach and an evil man. That's a pretty fringe definition of TO, and not one I'd use.

 

The "redistribution of wealth" catchphrase is a "conditioned, almost brainwashed" descriptor, and to date I haven't seen anything matching the hysteria this is intended to generate. I have, however, noticed the wealthiest of Americans - who are by and large proponents of and represented by the Republican Party - increase their wealth at a far greater pace than the non-wealthy, while at the same time the American Middle Class has been shrinking. So the "redistribution of wealth" appears to be a true thing, but not in the direction the conservative media would have us believe.

 

Bingo.

[JJ Husker]

What are you talking about when you say "seeking equality of outcomes?"

 

I would like to point out that "Some would say..." is pretty poor basis for defining anything. "Some would say" Tom Osborne was an awful coach and an evil man. That's a pretty fringe definition of TO, and not one I'd use.

 

The "redistribution of wealth" catchphrase is a "conditioned, almost brainwashed" descriptor, and to date I haven't seen anything matching the hysteria this is intended to generate. I have, however, noticed the wealthiest of Americans - who are by and large proponents of and represented by the Republican Party - increase their wealth at a far greater pace than the non-wealthy, while at the same time the American Middle Class has been shrinking. So the "redistribution of wealth" appears to be a true thing, but not in the direction the conservative media would have us believe.

First, you guys need to understand how I went about trying to answer this question. I tried to find a somewhat universal description of what constitutes a generally accepted far left position. I am ashamed to admit that the result I got was from Wikipedia but, it seemed to jive with a decent definition and it surely does run counter to generally accepted conservative positions so, I went with it. That "some would say" qualifier was in actuality "according to Wikipedia". I did not want to put that out there originally because they are often looked down upon as a source.

 

As I stated, I do not wish to defend or support either philosophy. I like to think I am fairly fiscally conservative and socially semi-liberal but I also realize I am gravitating more to the left and am also subject to the same prevailing attitudes as everyone else is. However hard it may be to prove this to someone who refuses to recognize the shift left this country has undergone over the last 50-100 years, I still believe the shift has occurred and continues to be happening. I won't argue that some of it hasn't been for the better. Yes our middle class is shrinking and yes our wealth is becoming more concentrated in fewer rich hands. That is not a healthy situation. But, having taxpayers subsidize poorer peoples healthcare or taxing (taking from) wealthier Americans in an effort to provide more benefits to less fortunate citizens is (or at least used to be) a fairly far left concept. And, as much as you may dislike the saying, some might say it hints of communism or the collective good.

 

Anyway, my point was that, even though some of the tactics engaged in by the tea party are more radical than we have previously experienced, the basic philosophy of right conservatives has not shifted significantly right but rather the whole country has become more accepting of left positions. This gives the illusion that the right is more extreme or radical, when in reality, those on the far right simply have not shifted left as quickly or as much as a majority of the people have. I guess failure to change can be viewed as being extreme. I just happen to feel it has more to do with relative perception than any real fundamental position change.

[knapplc]

I think it's pretty clear this country has shifted more left (lefter?) in the past 50, even 100 years, but it's important to point out that this left shift comes from a very conservative position this country once held.

 

The shift left still leaves this country right of center. It's still a nation sharply influenced by conservative positions, whether those positions truly lead to equality or the ability for all to exercise their unalienable Rights, among which are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. We just gave women the vote 100 years ago. We're not even 50 years removed from the March on Selma, and we just witnessed the gutting of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 a few months ago. Gays can't marry throughout the country to this day. For a nation founded on the idea that "all men are created equal," there are a lot of people still not equal 236 years after declaring they were.

[BigRedBuster]

I've always wondered.....how do you decide where "center" is?

[JJ Husker]

I've always wondered.....how do you decide where "center" is?

I think the general consensus is, center is wherever the person viewing it is. So, you are center, I am center, knapp is center, junior is center, etc. and everyone else is viewed by that person relatively to their position. Most people have no problem admitting if they are either a tad right or left of center but I haven't found too many people willing to admit they are extreme left or right. It's all relative, imo. If there were actually a definitive answer, we wouldn't have near the discussions (arguments) we do in this forum.

[BigRedBuster]

Well...I know I'm in the center because the world revolves around me.

 

I just always wondered how political people decide what that is.