BigRedBuster Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So, the feminist movement isn't seeking continued government protection in their right to have abortions.That's some impressive jiu-jitsu. How so? Honestly, I am totally baffled by this conversation. Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So, the NRA isn't seeking continued government protection in their right to own guns. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in access to various types of ammunition. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in their right for anyone to sell guns to anyone without government registry/oversight. Why is the NRA so politically active if they aren't seeking government protection on various issues? See what I did there, oh-so-cleverly? We're basically trying to say that, because "the feminist movement" is trying to exercise their rights, they are somehow "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog." Why isn't the NRA portrayed as "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog?" 4 Link to comment
carlfense Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So, the feminist movement isn't seeking continued government protection in their right to have abortions.That's some impressive jiu-jitsu. How so? Honestly, I am totally baffled by this conversation. You agree that the pro-life people want to use the government to limit/prohibit/ban abortions, right? Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Honestly, I am totally baffled by this conversation. There's a "them" quality to the arguments you're bringing to the table, hence the bafflement. Women aren't "them." They're "us." Don't you have a daughter/daughters, BRB? You don't see them, or your wife or sister or mother as fitting this portrait you're painting, do you? You see them as "us," I'm presuming, and that's what 99% of women are, feel like, act like, portray themselves as. NOW is a fringe group. When's the last time any woman you know brought up NOW in a conversation, referenced anything they promote, or in any way inferred support of their activities? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So, the NRA isn't seeking continued government protection in their right to own guns. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in access to various types of ammunition. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in their right for anyone to sell guns to anyone without government registry/oversight. Why is the NRA so politically active if they aren't seeking government protection on various issues? See what I did there, oh-so-cleverly? We're basically trying to say that, because "the feminist movement" is trying to exercise their rights, they are somehow "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog." Why isn't the NRA portrayed as "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog?" Knapp.... They are.....The NRA IS fighting for government protection to keep and bear arms. The NRA IS fighting for government protection to have access to all kinds of ammunition. The NRA IS fighting for government protection for anyone to sell arms to anyone without registry and over site. I'm confused. That is why they are so politically active just like why NOW is so politically active. AARP IS fighting for government protection on issues pertaining to elderly such as age discrimination. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Honestly, I am totally baffled by this conversation. There's a "them" quality to the arguments you're bringing to the table, hence the bafflement. Women aren't "them." They're "us." Don't you have a daughter/daughters, BRB? You don't see them, or your wife or sister or mother as fitting this portrait you're painting, do you? You see them as "us," I'm presuming, and that's what 99% of women are, feel like, act like, portray themselves as. NOW is a fringe group. When's the last time any woman you know brought up NOW in a conversation, referenced anything they promote, or in any way inferred support of their activities? I'm confused on what this post is about. Yes, I have two daughters who are teenagers who have grown up to be strong, smart talented women. But, that's not what either Warren's talking point nor the article I posted is about. Warren's talking point about equal pay for equal work is about..."elect me and I will fight for government protection of women in the work place to make sure they are paid equal to men". If that isn't what her talking point is about then please explain it to me. The article I posted isn't talking about my daughters or you or me or anyone other than a group of women claiming they don't need the feminist movement because they don't feel they have a problem with the issues the feminist movement is all about. It's no different than if I ( as a gun owner) formed a group of gun owners claiming we don't need NRA fighting for people in government to protect our right to bear arms because I (and people in my new organization) don't believe other people are trying to take our guns away. Link to comment
tschu Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 So, the NRA isn't seeking continued government protection in their right to own guns. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in access to various types of ammunition. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in their right for anyone to sell guns to anyone without government registry/oversight. Why is the NRA so politically active if they aren't seeking government protection on various issues? See what I did there, oh-so-cleverly? We're basically trying to say that, because "the feminist movement" is trying to exercise their rights, they are somehow "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog." Why isn't the NRA portrayed as "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog?" Knapp.... They are.....The NRA IS fighting for government protection to keep and bear arms. The NRA IS fighting for government protection to have access to all kinds of ammunition. The NRA IS fighting for government protection for anyone to sell arms to anyone without registry and over site. I'm confused. That is why they are so politically active just like why NOW is so politically active. AARP IS fighting for government protection on issues pertaining to elderly such as age discrimination. That whooshing sound is knapp's post going way over your head 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So, the NRA isn't seeking continued government protection in their right to own guns. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in access to various types of ammunition. The NRA isn't seeking government protection in their right for anyone to sell guns to anyone without government registry/oversight. Why is the NRA so politically active if they aren't seeking government protection on various issues? See what I did there, oh-so-cleverly? We're basically trying to say that, because "the feminist movement" is trying to exercise their rights, they are somehow "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog." Why isn't the NRA portrayed as "constantly in need of either government protection or who are always the underdog?" Knapp.... They are.....The NRA IS fighting for government protection to keep and bear arms. The NRA IS fighting for government protection to have access to all kinds of ammunition. The NRA IS fighting for government protection for anyone to sell arms to anyone without registry and over site. I'm confused. That is why they are so politically active just like why NOW is so politically active. AARP IS fighting for government protection on issues pertaining to elderly such as age discrimination. That whooshing sound is knapp's post going way over your head It must because I am honestly baffled. I have asked several times "Why is the feminist movement so politically active it if isn't seeking government protection for women on various issues?" Just like why is the NRA so politically active if it isn't seeking government protection for gun owners on the issues they claim are important? I honestly am interested in the explanation. Link to comment
Creighton Duke Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 It's a made-up conservative talking point that has no basis in reality, as per usual And we have our winner. This should have been an easy question to answer. If society was permeated with these government-dependent women it would be easy to point to regular women in regular situations who "rely on the government." I asked a plain question in plain English, looking for that simple, obvious answer. Instead, we get vague references to women's rights groups and "talking about discrimination" as evidence.... I think the reason why it can be so difficult to point to these situations is that we are so far down the rabbit hole and things have become so entrenched that many just accept them to be. I know that isn't a great answer, but in this setting, I don't like the dirt from the wrestling. EDIT: and to be fair, I don't think that women are always looking directly at government to be the source of their salvation, but in many cases towards the white knights, providers, tschus of the world. Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I think the reason why it can be so difficult to point to these situations is that we are so far down the rabbit hole and things have become so entrenched that many just accept them to be. I know that isn't a great answer, but in this setting, I don't like the dirt from the wrestling. I know this is anecdotal, but I know zero women (and for some reason most of my friends are women, and I spend 95% of my day around women) who in any way ever, ever, ever refer to NOW or their programs or activities. Literally, this has happened zero times in my life. To continue down the anecdotal trail, anyone commenting in this thread: carlfense, tschu, BRB, Luke, C-Duke - do you know any women who follow NOW or their agenda? Or ever refer to them, ever? Link to comment
carlfense Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 To continue down the anecdotal trail, anyone commenting in this thread: carlfense, tschu, BRB, Luke, C-Duke - do you know any women who follow NOW or their agenda? Or ever refer to them, ever? Only one. But she is straight up crazy and I haven't seen or talked to her in years. Raised in Boulder. Legitimately pro-abortion . . . not pro-choice . . . but actually pro-abortion. Scarily enough . . . she's probably doing that for a living by now. Or at least in her residency. Those political discussions at the Mill got pretty heated. Not to mention that I was in the midst of my Ayn Rand phase. Ugh. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 To continue down the anecdotal trail, anyone commenting in this thread: carlfense, tschu, BRB, Luke, C-Duke - do you know any women who follow NOW or their agenda? Or ever refer to them, ever? Actually, yes. Not necessarily NOW specifically but I have known a number of women in my life who have been active in what I would call the feminist movement. I know women who have helped political candidates campaign on women's issues. I am actually related to three that I can think of who are very politically active about this stuff. I remember working with one woman years ago who claimed she almost transferred to a completely different university because she didn't think the student body was politically active enough on women's issues. Link to comment
Creighton Duke Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I think the reason why it can be so difficult to point to these situations is that we are so far down the rabbit hole and things have become so entrenched that many just accept them to be. I know that isn't a great answer, but in this setting, I don't like the dirt from the wrestling. I know this is anecdotal, but I know zero women (and for some reason most of my friends are women, and I spend 95% of my day around women) who in any way ever, ever, ever refer to NOW or their programs or activities. Literally, this has happened zero times in my life. To continue down the anecdotal trail, anyone commenting in this thread: carlfense, tschu, BRB, Luke, C-Duke - do you know any women who follow NOW or their agenda? Or ever refer to them, ever? knapp, I agree; I don't see anyone (woman or male SJW) quoting NOW, Betty Friedan, Ms. Magazine, whatever. Like I said, it is more stuff that is entrenched in the culture. I do observe divorce laws, I do observe child custody laws, I do observe "street harassment" laws, etc. This stuff isn't what women are preaching because these battles have or are being won. Link to comment
tschu Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 If I can bring it back to my "everyone guaranteed a living wage" point, here is an interesting article about the negative income tax that you sometimes hear about but rarely gets any serious discussion these days http://www.vox.com/2014/7/23/5925041/guaranteed-income-basic-poverty-gobry-labor-supply Link to comment
LukeinNE Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Er....the NRA isn't seeking government protection for gun rights and NOW isn't seeking government protection for abortion rights. Right or wrong, modern society considers both to be rights, that is things people are entitled to do, should they want to. In both cases, those groups are seeking to prevent government interference with those rights, rather than seeking government protection against other groups. I know this is anecdotal, but I know zero women (and for some reason most of my friends are women, and I spend 95% of my day around women) who in any way ever, ever, ever refer to NOW or their programs or activities. Literally, this has happened zero times in my life. To continue down the anecdotal trail, anyone commenting in this thread: carlfense, tschu, BRB, Luke, C-Duke - do you know any women who follow NOW or their agenda? Or ever refer to them, ever? Yes - I had the misfortune of participating in collegiate speech for a couple of years. Our coach and a handful of the female team members were proud card-carrying NOW members and I endured many a lecture on why everything from organized sports to Miss, Ms. and Mrs. are tools of oppression for the patriarchy. Link to comment
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